The difficulty in ranking the world’s great pyramids stems largely from the “hidden” labor and geological shortcuts utilized by ancient engineers. While a structure like the Great Pyramid of Giza is composed entirely of quarried stone transported to a site, many North American giants, such as Tonina in Mexico, are essentially “sculpted” hills. By terraforming an existing limestone ridge into a series of seven massive terraces, the Maya created a towering acropolis that reaches higher than almost any other in the Americas. However, because much of its internal mass is a natural hill rather than transported material, purists often debate whether its height should be compared to “true” pyramids built entirely from scratch through the sheer manual labor of carrying basketloads of earth or stone.
Architectural “completeness” also skews our modern perspective of height and volume. Most Mesoamerican pyramids were not intended to end at their stone summits; they were pedestals for sanctuaries or cellae. At sites like Teotihuacán, evidence suggests that the massive Pyramid of the Sun once supported a colossal temple made of wood and thatch. Because these organic materials perished centuries ago, the structure appears shorter today than it was in its prime. In contrast, Mayan temples like those at Tikal feature heavy stone sanctuaries topped with massive roof combs. While these stone structures survive, a pyramid with a vanished 40-foot wooden temple might have originally looked far more imposing than a smaller stone-topped contemporary that we see today.
Finally, the distinction between a “structure” and a “platform” creates a counting nightmare for historians. Many pyramids sit on top of massive artificial terraces that cover several city blocks—as seen with La Danta in Guatemala or the Great Pyramid of Cholula. If one includes the base platform as part of the pyramid’s height, the structure becomes a world-record breaker; if one counts only the final steep ascent, it appears much smaller. This lack of a standardized “baseline” means that any list of the tallest pyramids is as much a matter of archaeological definition as it is of physical measurement.
PYRAMID Name
SITE NAME
PYRAMID Height (ft)
BASE Height (ft)
Cella Height (ft)
BASE Dimensions (ft)
VOLUME (cu ft)
NOTES
Khufu Pyramid
Giza Egypt
481
0
0
755 x 755 ft
91,636,272
Mesoamerican pyramids can’t compare with Giza heights.
Tonina Acropolis
Tonina, Mexico
241
241 ft
25-30 ft
1,050 x 1,050 (est)
~2,500,000
Built from a natural hillside; recently confirmed as one of the tallest.
La Danta
El Mirador, Guatemala
236
33-66 ft
25-30 ft
1,017 x 1,935
98,881,000
Massive base platform; often cited as the largest by total volume in the world.
Great Pyramid
Cholula, Mexico
217
0
0
1,480 x 1,480
157,150,000
Largest base area of any pyramid; total volume exceeds Giza.
Pyramid of the Sun
Teotihuacan, Mexico
216
0
0
738 x 738
41,495,000
The largest structure in the city of Teotihuacán.
Tikal Temple IV
Tikal, Guatemala
212
0
~40 ft
192 x 146
6,710,000
Tallest “classic” Maya temple with its characteristic roof comb.
Calakmul Str. II
Calakmul, Mexico
180
0
~15 ft
460 x 460
~3,500,000
Largest building in the powerful city-state of Calakmul.
Temple of Great Jaguar
Tikal, Guatemala
154
0
~30 ft
123 x 135
~1,200,000
Also known as Temple I; iconic Petén-style pyramid.
Pyramid of the Moon
Teotihuacan, Mexico
141
0
482 x 426
~7,000,000
Built at the north end of the Avenue of the Dead.
Nohoch Mul
Coba, Mexico
137
0
~12 ft
~150 x 150
~1,000,000
Tallest pyramid on the Yucatán Peninsula.
Pyramid of Magician
Uxmal, Mexico
115
0
?
227 x 162
~1,500,000
Unique elliptical base and Puuc-style architecture.
Lamanai High Temple
Lamanai, Belize
108
0
~10 ft
~170 x 170
~800,000
Tallest temple in Belize; offers views over the New River Lagoon.
Becan Edificio IX
Becan, Mexico
105
0
?
~130 x 130
~600,000
The highest building in the Chenes-style site of Becan.
Monks Mound
Cahokia, USA
100
30 (Terrace)
0
1,037 x 790
22,000,000
Largest prehistoric earthwork in the Americas; 100% man-made.
El Castillo
Chichen Itza, Mexico
98
0
~18 ft
181 x 181
~1,100,000
Famous for the equinox shadow of the feathered serpent.
Edzna Five-Story Bldg
Edzna, Mexico
94
0
?
~195 x 195
~750,000
Combines a residential palace with a pyramid temple.
Temple of Inscriptions
Palenque, Mexico
89
0
?
197 x 139
~1,150,000
Funerary monument for King Pakal the Great.
Temple of the Cross
Palenque, Mexico
82
0
?
~100 x 100
~350,000
One of the Group of the Cross structures at Palenque.
Altun Ha Temple
Altun Ha, Belize
54
0
?
~120 x 120
~200,000
Formally the Temple of the Masonry Altars.
Etzna Temple Masks
Edzna, Mexico
18
0
?
90 x 54
~30,000
Smaller temple noted for its giant stucco masks.
El Tajin Niches
El Tajin, Mexico
60
0
?
115 x 115
~300,000
Unique construction with 365 niches representing days of the year.
Copan Temple 16
Copan, Honduras
66
0
?
~140 x 140
~400,000
The tallest building on the Copan Acropolis.
Tikal Temple II
Tikal, Guatemala
125
0
?
123 x 135
~800,000
Located directly across the Great Plaza from Temple I.
Cahal Pech Temple
Cahal Pech, Belize
77
0
?
~80 x 80
~150,000
Dominant structure in the central acropolis.
Xunantunich Castillo
Xunantunich, Belize
130
0
~20 ft
~150 x 150
~1,000,000
Notable for the massive friezes on its upper levels.
Monte Alban N. Plat.
Monte Alban, Mexico
131
50
0
984 x 656
~10,000,000
Technically a massive platform base for several temples.
Pyramids like the Tonina acropolis are built of reshaped hills or hillsides and so might not really ‘count’ as tallest or largest pyramids when trying to compare effort employed to build the structures.Pyramids like La Danta in El Mirador have large base platforms which appear to be reshaped hill features, so once again might not really ‘count’ as tallest or largest pyramids when trying to compare effort employed to build the structures.Pyramids like Tikal have massive preserved stone ‘Cellae’ or sanctuaries on top which when being compared with pyramids that do NOT have preserved sanctuaries like Teotihuacan’s temple of the Sun… need to consider both pyramids either WITH or WITHOUT the sanctuaries to compare apples with apples.
https://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.png00MormonBoxhttps://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.pngMormonBox2026-05-14 20:06:222026-05-14 20:35:41What is the Largest & Tallest Pyramid in Mesoamerica?
The following article explores a nuanced perspective on the structure of the LDS Church and all religious organizations, suggesting that what appears to be a single institution is, in reality, three distinct spiritual “churches” existing simultaneously.
The Hidden Triad: Three Distinct Churches Within the One
While casual observers and many adherents see the Church as a monolithic organization defined by its leadership and ordinances, the scriptures reveal a far more complex spiritual topography. Throughout religious history, the divisions of humanity have often been presented in dualistic terms—Heaven and Hell, the saved and the damned, or the wheat and the tares. This binary perspective, prevalent in the Old Testament and much of the Book of Mormon, serves as a necessary foundation for moral polarization. However, following the ministry of Christ and the subsequent revelations of the Restoration, a third, higher distinction emerges.
Just as the Apostle Paul spoke of the “third heaven” and identified three distinct glories in the afterlife—symbolized by the sun, the moon, and the stars—so too are there three distinct churches within the Church: the Celestial, the Terrestrial, and the Telestial. These are not merely future destinations in the afterlife but are current spiritual states and “societal dimensions” that exist right now within the pews and hierarchies of every religious sect.
Reconciling the “Doing” and the “Confessing”
A central tension in Christian theology exists between the words of Christ, who stated that “only those who DO the father’s will will be saved,” and the words of Paul, who suggested that salvation comes to all who “confess Christ.” This apparent contradiction is reconciled through the lens of these three churches.
Scripture suggests that the “confession” of Christ is the entry point into the spiritual system—it is the “Light of Christ” or the divine conscience that illuminates every soul entering the world. This light teaches the “law of Christ” (the law of love) to all sentient beings, regardless of their religious labels. However, “doing” the Father’s will is what determines the “glory” or degree of spiritual nature one ultimately inherits.
The sources argue that God judges all people “according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts”. Therefore, the three churches represent three levels of obedience to this divine nature: those who reject it while professing it (the Tares), those who serve it as a matter of duty (the Wheat), and those who become one with it (the Bread of Life).
1. The Telestial Church: The Tares and the Pharisees
The first church within the organization is the Telestial Church, comprised of what the scriptures call “the tares”. This group is unique because it exists at every level of the organization, including the very top. Like the Pharisees of Christ’s day, these individuals often possess the outward “priesthood” and are the most vocal in their “orthodoxy,” yet they do not truly know the God they profess.
The Telestial mindset is defined by sectarianism and pride. These are they who say they are “of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas,” or in a modern context, they who derive their spiritual identity from their loyalty to specific leaders or “only true church” claims rather than the Spirit of the Gospel. Because they prioritize the “dead works” of outward ordinances and sectarian division over the “law of love,” they are described as those who “crucify Christ afresh” and put Him to an open shame.
In this church, religion is used as a tool for control and “unrighteous dominion”. They are the “captives” of false traditions who, despite having access to the Light, “choose darkness” and create “hells” out of their religious societies.
2. The Terrestrial Church: The Wheat and the Servants
The second church is the Terrestrial Church, represented by “the wheat”. These are the honorable, good-hearted people of the earth who strive to live the law as they understand it. In the spiritual hierarchy, they are “partially saved” in that they inhabit a “heaven-like state” of peace and civility, yet they lack the “fullness of glory”.
The inhabitants of the Terrestrial Church exist within the kingdom as servants. They receive the “presence of the Son, but not the fullness of the Father”. They are working toward perfection, often through the “schoolmaster” of religious law and ordinances, but they have not yet achieved the “unity of faith” required to see God “as He is”. They are the “just men” who are in the process of being “made perfect,” but they still see “through a glass darkly,” relying on the “letter of the law” rather than the “Spirit which gives life”.
3. The Celestial Church: The Bread of Life and the Sons of God
The third and highest distinction is the Celestial Church, also known as the “Church of the Firstborn”. This is not merely a group of “wheat” separated from the “tares,” but a group that has been transformed into the “bread of life itself” [Prompt]. These are the individuals who have “partaken of the divine nature,” obeying God’s voice with all their hearts until they have become “sons and heirs of God”.
The Celestial Church is composed of “spirits of just men made perfect” who have overcome all things through Jesus. They no longer see through a glass darkly; they have become like Him and “see him as he is” [Prompt]. These are the co-creators with God and the “saviors on Mount Zion” [Prompt]. They do not follow the law because of a “written code” but because the law has been written on the “fleshy tablets of their hearts”.
In this church, the “only true church” doctrine is understood not as an exclusivist claim, but as a state of perfect unity and unconditional love. They have achieved a “fullness of glory” where there is no more dualism, only “one glorified nature”.
The Necessity of the Three Growing Together
The scriptures teach that these three churches—the Tares, the Wheat, and the Bread—must “grow together” within the same organization until the “harvest”. This arrangement is not an accident but is intelligently designed to accelerate spiritual growth.
By pairing the “wheat” (those learning love) with the “tares” (those obsessed with control), God provides a “turbo-boosted” environment for progression. The Wheat learn patience, forgiveness, and unconditional love by dealing with the pride and manipulation of the Tares. Meanwhile, the Tares are given a constant example of Christ-like service that might eventually lead them to repentance.
Finally, the “Bread”—the Sons of God—act as the “welding link” that eventually gathers all things into one. They understand that while the earthly church is a “schoolmaster” and an “idol” built by human hands to represent the divine, the true “Church of God” transcends all organizational lines. It is the spiritual assembly of all who “repent and come unto Christ”.
Conclusion: Toward the One True Church
In conclusion, the “Only True Church” is not a specific denomination, but a heavenly reality that earthly organizations are commanded to align with. Within our current mortal congregations, we find the Tares who prioritize power, the Wheat who prioritize service, and the Bread who prioritize divine unity.
The ultimate goal of religion is to transform the “Tares” into “Wheat” and the “Wheat” into the “Bread of Life,” until all are gathered together in one. Only when we lose our pride and our desire to be “right” or “exclusive” can we truly join the “Church of the Firstborn” and see God as He is—not through a glass darkly, but face to face.
https://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/Slide1.jpg9601707MormonBoxhttps://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.pngMormonBox2026-04-05 09:13:492026-04-05 19:24:19Three Churches in ONE. The Trinitarian Nature of the Church
Out of love for the truth and from a desire to elucidate it, the following statements are offered for the reformation of the Restoration, seeking to universalize and enrich the LDS faith by aligning its traditions with its founding revelations.
The Nature of the Church and Repentance
When our Lord and Master Jesus Christ said, “whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me,” he willed the same to be his church. Such was the founding revelation & principle of the restored latter-day church of Christ. (D&C 10:67)
Yet it does not mean solely a spiritual change; such inward rebirth is worthless unless it produces outward service, an organized community, physical church structure, or priesthood of believers and humanitarian work. (Eph 2:20, D&C 27:12–13, Matt 16:18)
Yet still, the definition of the church remains only this—to repent and come to Christ—until our entrance into the kingdom of heaven. (D&C 10:67–68)
Limits of Priesthood Authority
Amid the needed organization or literal religious priesthood, the leaders neither desire nor are able to bind any member to decisions except those confirmed by the Spirit and common consent. (D&C 26:2; D&C 28:13, D&C 107:27)
The prophet or high priest of said priesthood cannot grant any special standing before God, except by declaring that such status has already been granted by God to the repentant. (D&C 50:15–20)
God grants his Spirit to no one unless they first humble themselves and seek the democratic voice of the entire body of the church. (D&C 124:144, D&C 102:5–19, D&C 104:71–85)
Symbols and Ordinances
Temporal ordinances are imposed only on the living; according to the scriptures, no physical ritual should be a requirement for the dead, except to aid in the communion & binding of the living and dead. (D&C 137:1–10)
Therefore the Spirit is kind to us insofar as the scriptures always make exception for the ignorant and those who die without the law. (D&C 137:7)
Those teachers act ignorantly and wickedly who, in the case of the dead, suggest that temple work is an absolute requirement for celestial glory — It is instead a beautiful symbol for the living and holy communion with the dead. (D&C 137:7–9)
Those tares who changing symbolic similitudes into literal requirements, and systems of voluntary communion into autocratic structures were evidently sown while the watchmen of the church slept. (D&C 128:13)
In former times, ordinances were seen as types and shadows; not as the spiritual realities of salvation themselves. (Hebrews 10:1)
The dead, as the living, are freed from the veil by death and have a right to be judged by their hearts regardless of earthly ceremonies. (D&C 137:9)
Fear vs. Love in the Afterlife
Imperfect understanding of God’s mercy necessarily brings with it great fear that families will be kept apart in heaven. (D&C 137:1–10)
This fear of being restricted by an invisible force is sufficient to constitute a spiritual purgatory of the mind. (Alma 31:12–21)
Celestial, terrestrial, and telestial glories differ the same as assurance of love differs from the bondage of the law. (D&C 76:77–98)
It seems as though for souls in the spirit world, knowledge of Christ’s mercy should decrease fear and increase peace. (D&C 138:29–30)
Furthermore, it is proved by scripture that souls in “prison” are not outside the state of merit, being able to grow and repent. (D&C 138:29–30)
Nor is it proved that non-members, at least not all of them, are excluded from the presence of God simply for lacking ordinances. (D&C 137:7)
The Fallacy of Institutional Remission
Therefore the prophet, when he uses the words “the church is the only path,” does not mean the temporal sect, but the heavenly or spiritual brotherhood. (D&C 10:67–68)
Thus those teachers are in error who say that a man is saved solely by his membership in any temporal organization. (D&C 10:67)
As a matter of fact, the priesthood remits to members no penalty of sin which, according to the law of Christ, must be resolved in the heart. (D&C 121:36–46)
If full salvation could be granted to anyone by virtue of priesthood keys alone, it would be granted only to the most perfect. (D&C 121:37)
For this reason many people are deceived by the high-sounding promise that “following the prophet” guarantees they cannot go astray. (D&C 3:9–11)
That power which a General Authority has over the church corresponds to the power any local Bishop should have by common consent. (D&C 107:36)
The leaders do well when they grant guidance, not by a “divine dictatorship,” but by way of humble persuasion. (D&C 121:41)
They preach human doctrines who say that as soon as the tithing is paid, the windows of heaven are opened for “fire insurance.” (2 Nephi 28:13)
It is certain that when money is fully centralized in an organization, greed can be increased; but when the poor are served, the result is in God’s hands. (2 Nephi 28:13)
Who knows whether all members wish to be governed by a central authority, since many find more Spirit in local autonomy. (D&C 107:36–37)
No one is sure of the integrity of their own witness, much less of having a perfect knowledge of the “only true church.” (Alma 32:21)
The True Cost of Mercy
The person who truly seeks Christ is as rare as the person who truly needs no priesthood office; indeed, they are rare. (D&C 121:34–40)
Those who believe they are certain of salvation because they hold a temple recommend will be disappointed, together with their teachers. (2 Nephi 28:14)
Men must be on guard against those who say that the “keys” are the inestimable gift by which man is reconciled to God. (D&C 121:41)
For the graces of priesthood are concerned only with the management of symbolic ordinances established for man. (Hebrews 10:1)
They who teach that repentance is not necessary for those who have had their “calling and election made sure” preach unchristian doctrine. (D&C 3:9–11)
Any truly repentant person has a right to full remission of sin even without the intervention of an LDS Bishop. (Alma 38:8–9). But oh how blessed is that Saint who is fellowshipped by a righteous leader!
Any true disciple, whether LDS or not, participates in all the blessings of Christ; this is granted by God without priesthood titles. (Moroni 7:16–17)
Nevertheless, the authority of the restored keys is not to be disregarded, for it is a proclamation of the heavenly order. (D&C 107:18–19)
It is difficult, even for the most learned apostles, to commend the need for institutional loyalty and the need for individual conscience. (D&C 121:37)
A disciple who is truly contrite seeks to abase himself; the focus on priesthood rank, however, causes men to seek for honors. (Matthew 23:6–12)
Priesthood “mantles” must be preached with caution, lest people erroneously think they are preferable to the gifts of the Spirit. (D&C 46:7–8)
Christians are to be taught that leaders do not intend that the building of temporal investments or physical religious structures should be compared with works of mercy. (2 Nephi 28:13)
Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor does a better deed than he who funds fine sanctuaries. (2 Nephi 28:13)
Because love grows by works of love, man becomes better; he does not become better by means of rituals alone. (1 Corinthians 13)
Christians are to be taught that he who sees a needy man and passes him by, yet pays his tithing to a charity, church or wealthy institution, buys God’s wrath. (Matthew 19:21)
Christians are to be taught that they must reserve enough for their family needs and by no means squander their “living” on institutional excess. Such is not righteous sacrifice but folly. (1 Timothy 6:10)
Christians are to be taught that the choice to follow a prophet is a matter of free choice, not to be coerced by threats of damnation or destruction. (Alma 29:4)
Christians are to be taught that God, in granting revelations, needs and desires our agency more than our blind obedience. (Moses 4:1–3)
Christians are to be taught that priesthood is useful only if they do not put their trust in it, but keep their fear of God because of it. (Hebrews 7:14, D&C 121:41)
Christians are to be taught that if the leaders knew the exactions of the tithe-collectors, they would rather the temples were burned to ashes than built with the skin of the poor. (2 Nephi 28:13)
Christians are to be taught that the Church should wish to give of its own corporate wealth to many of those from whom it now insists tithing. (D&C 105:3)
It is vain to trust in salvation by “following the prophet,” over the conscience given in Christ’s Spirit, even though the prophet were to offer his own soul as security. (D&C 3:9–11)
The True Treasures of the Church
They are enemies of Christ and the Church who forbid the saint of sharing of “too sacred” witnesses in order that vague innuendo may be preached instead. (Ether 3:19–20)
Injury is done to the Word of God when, in the same meeting, more time is devoted to the prophet’s or priory’s biography than to the Gospel. (1 Nephi 11:32)
It is the Lord’s sentiment that if the “Only True Church” claim is celebrated with one bell, then the global spiritual brotherhood should be preached with a hundred. (D&C 10:67)
The true treasures of the church, out of which the Lord distributes grace, are not known among the people because they are too oft hidden by institutional pride. (2 Nephi 28)
That these treasures are not temporal wealth is clear; for many leaders do not distribute the church’s billions but only gather them. (2 Nephi 28:13)
Nor are they the exclusive merits of LDS leaders, for even without our sect, the Spirit always works grace for the inner man of the nations. (Moroni 7:16)
Anciently, the poor of the church were called its treasures; but we have made fine sanctuaries our treasures. This must not be. (2 Nephi 28:13)
Without want of consideration, we say that the “keys” of service, given by the sacrifice of Christ, are that treasure. (Matthew 20:26–28)
For it is clear that God’s power is of itself sufficient for the remission of sins through faith. (Ether 12:16–22)
The true treasure of the church is the most holy gospel of the glory and grace of God. (D&C 10:67)
But this treasure is naturally most odious, for it makes the first to be last and rejects elitism. (Matthew 20:16)
On the other hand, the treasure of “divine election” is naturally most acceptable, for it makes the last to be first. (Matthew 20:16)
Therefore the treasures of the gospel are nets with which one formerly fished for the hearts of men. (Matthew 4:19)
The treasures of institutional exclusivity are nets with which one now fishes for the wealth and loyalty of men. (2 Nephi 28:13)
The “graces” which some apologists acclaim as the greatest are actually understood to be such only insofar as they promote institutional gain. (2 Nephi 28:13)
They are nevertheless the most insignificant graces when compared with the grace of God and the piety of the cross. (1 Corinthians 1:17)
Bishops and Stake leaders are bound to admit/follow the directives of the central church with all reverence,
But they are much more bound to strain their eyes and ears, and balance central directives with what the Spirit teaches them and their parishioners, lest these men preach their own traditions instead of what God has commissioned! (Matthew 15:6–9, reform#4)
Let him who speaks against the truth of the heavenly church or universal pluralism be corrected. (3 Nephi 16:4–7)
But let him who guards against the lust for power and “divine dictatorship” be blessed. (D&C 121:41)
Just as the church justly thunders against those who contrive harm to the institution. (D&C 107:84)
Much more does God intend to thunder against those who use the church as a pretext to contrive harm to agency and truth. (Moses 4:3, Alma 29:4)
To consider polygamy so great that it could be forced upon women by an “angel with a drawn sword” is a ridiculous idea and a slap to the dignity of God & his Christ. (Alma 42:27–28, Moroni 10:12–14)
We say on the contrary that polygamy was a lower law allowed because of the hardness of hearts. (Matthew 19:8, Jacob 4:14–15)
To say that even Joseph Smith, if he were now here, could not err is a muted form of blasphemy. (D&C 3:4)
We say on the contrary that even the present prophet has greater graces at his disposal—that is, the power to repent and admit mistakes. (D&C 3:10)
To say that a corporate logo or the “mantle of authority” is equal in worth to the character of Christ is an error. (D&C 121:45)
The bishops and teachers who permit such idol-worship to be spread among the people will have to answer for this. (Alma 31:12–21)
Sharp Questions of the Layman
This unbridled preaching of ‘muted’ or renamed infallibility makes it difficult for learned men to rescue the church from the shrewd questions of the people. (D&C 121:41–42, offcdeclaration 1)
Such as: “Why does not the Church empty more its storehouses & resources to build sanctuaries, and shopping malls incommensurate with efforts toward eliminating the poor among us?!”. (2 Nephi 28:13)
Again: “Why are temple sealings taught to be “required” for the dead when God knows their hearts and can save them without our intervention?” Nay, it is communion with our dead in Christ which will save us both! (D&C 137:7–9)
Again: “What is this new piety where a wealthy man doest so often buy his way into leadership while a poor person is judged, and passed over because of their coffee or their clothing?!”. (Matthew 15:6–9)
Again: “Why are the laws of consecration, long since dead in practice, now satisfied by a percentage of income, which leaveth the rich rich, and the poor poor, as though equality were no longer required?!”. (D&C 49:20)
Again: “Why does not the Church, whose wealth is greater than many nations, build & clean its meeting houses & temples with its own compounded money rather than the tithing of poor believers?!”. (2 Nephi 28:13)
Again: “What does the Church ‘seal’ for those who by their own goodness already have a right to full union in heaven?”. (D&C 137:9)
Again: “What greater blessing could come than if the Church bestowed its wealth & effort on the poor & needful a hundred times a day, or at least fully once each Fast Sunday, as it now does but occasionally!?”. (D&C 105:3)
“Since the Church seeks the salvation of souls rather than money, why does it suspend temple recommends over tithing when the Spirit is given freely!?”. (Romans 14:17)
To repress these sharp arguments by excommunication or “shaming” dissidents alone, and not to resolve them by giving evidence of efforts to reform, makes the people unhappy!
If, therefore, these reforms from our founding scripture were encouraged and preached in proper proportion according to the Spirit, all these doubts would be resolved; indeed, they would not exist! (Matt 23:23–24, D&C 105:10)
Final Exhortation
Away, then, with all those prophets who say to the people “all is well in Zion” when Zion is not well. Or say, “the prophet cannot lead you astray,” when there is no such promise, but instead instruction on how to remove a wayward president!. (2 Ne 28:21, OD 1, Matt 23:24, D&C 107:81–84, D&C 3:9)
Blessed be all those prophets who say to the people, “Look to Jesus and repent, for we have all made mistakes”. (Romans 3:23, D&C 3:10)
Christians should be exhorted to be diligent in following Christ, their Head, through whatever consequences, penalties, doubts, and individual conscience. (Acts 14:22)
And thus be confident of entering into heaven through the testing of their own agency rather than through the false security of an institution. (John 5:39–47, Alma 29:4)
Let us, through our repentance on these things show the Jew, Gentile and Muslim the correct gate to heaven, which is individual and collective repentance of sin for our own misdeeds and those of our leaders. Let us not elevate Mohammed, Moses or Brigham or Joseph Smith and justify their iniquities, but lift up Christ and His long suffering toward imperfect leaders.
https://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/LDS-95-Thesis-Image.png7681376MormonBoxhttps://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.pngMormonBox2026-04-04 08:51:122026-05-02 14:32:3195 Thesis of LDS Church Restoration & Reformation
-TO ADD. (Mythraic Prophesies, and their connection to Judaism) -BOM prophesies (also Isaiah) -Kolbrin prophesies.
Several major archeological and textual finds dating to the 2nd and 1st centuries BCE (the “Intertestamental Period”) show that Jewish groups were already interpreting their law, sacrifices, and rituals as a “blueprint” for a suffering or sacrificed Messiah.
These texts provide a “bridge” between the Old and New Testaments, proving that the idea of a sacrificed Messiah wasn’t a later Christian invention, but a pre-existing Jewish expectation.
1. The Dead Sea Scrolls (The “Pierced Messiah”)
Discovered in 1947, these texts date from roughly 250 BCE to 68 CE. They represent the views of the Essenes, a Jewish sect that viewed the Jerusalem Temple as corrupt and looked for a coming “Teacher of Righteousness.”
Fragment 4Q285 (The Pierced Messiah Text): This fragment references a “Branch of David” and mentions a “piercing” or “killing.” Scholars have debated the grammar, but many (such as Robert Eisenman) argue it describes a messianic leader who is put to death.1
The “Melchizedek” Document (11Q13): This text identifies the coming Messiah with the figure of Melchizedek.2 It suggests that this figure would make an “atonement” for the people at the end of the tenth Jubilee, explicitly linking the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) rituals to the Messiah’s coming work.
He will proclaim to them the jubilee, thereby releasing them from the debt of all their sins… Then the “Day of Atonement” shall follow at the end of the tenth jubilee period (490 years), when he shall atone for all the Sons of Light and the people who are predestined to Melchizedek. (11Q13 Melchizedek Scroll)
2. The Similitudes of Enoch (1 Enoch 37–71)
While portions of 1 Enoch date back to 300 BCE, the “Similitudes” are often dated to the 1st Century BCE.
The “Son of Man”: This text is the first to take the “Son of Man” from Daniel 7 and describe him as a pre-existent, divine being.
The Sacrifice Motif: It describes this figure as the “Light of the Gentiles” and the “Stay of the Righteous.” More importantly, it hints that he is “hidden” by God until the time of his appearance, where he will undergo a struggle that redeems the elect.
3. The Wisdom of Solomon (2nd Century BCE)
Found in the Apocrypha, this text contains a “prophecy” (Chapter 2) that early Christians found so accurate it was almost haunting.
The Text: It describes the “Righteous Man” who calls himself the “Child of the Lord.” The wicked decide to test him: “Let us examine him with despitefulness and torture… Let us condemn him with a shameful death.”
The Point: Jewish writers were already theorizing that a truly “Righteous One” would be rejected and “sacrificed” by the wicked because his life was a “reproach to their thoughts.”
4. The Melchizedek / “Angel of the Lord” Connection
Several apocryphal texts suggest that the Angel of the Lord (the emanation of YHWH you asked about earlier) was the one who personally instructed Moses on how to set up the Tabernacle rituals.
The Logic: In the Testament of Levi (part of the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, 2nd Century BCE), it is prophesied that a “New Priest” will arise to whom all the “Gentiles” will be gathered.3
The Sacrifice: This text suggests that the animal sacrifices in the Temple were merely temporary “reminders” until the True High Priest arrived to open the gates of Paradise.
5. Summary of Pre-Christian Messianic Themes
Text
Date
Messianic “Shadow”
Dead Sea Scrolls (4Q285)
~100 BCE
A Davidic leader who is “pierced” or “killed.”
11QMelchizedek
~100 BCE
The Messiah performing a final “Atonement.”
Wisdom of Solomon
~150 BCE
The “Child of God” undergoing a “shameful death.”
Testament of Levi
~2nd Century BCE
A New Priest who replaces animal sacrifice with himself.
Why this supports the “Jewish Correction”
These texts show that the “Hebrew” view of the law was not just a list of rules. To these ancient Jews, every lamb, every altar, and every vestment was a “type” or “shadow” of a living Person.
When the “Gentile” church later codified the Trinity, they focused on What God is (substance). These older Jewish texts focus on Who God is through What He Does (Sacrifice and Atonement).
Would you like me to look specifically at the Book of Jubilees? It dates to the 2nd century BCE and contains a very detailed explanation of how the Passover points to a cosmic redemption
MAN:33:17 In the Book of the Bearers of Light is written: ‘Osireh says to those about him, “I am the first among lightbearers. I am the one instructed by The Great God, I am the one with knowledge concerning the building of the first Shrine of Mysteries. I, alone of those now upon Earth, hold the key to the Sacred Mysteries. I know the secret of things that are past, of things that are and of things that are to be. MAN:33:18 God says to Osireh, “Behold the land before you, it is a chosen land for safeguarding the Sacred Mysteries. Out of its womb shall come the Child of Truth. which shall die and rise again to lead men in the struggle to glory. In the Day of his rising, the Earth will be distressed and know it not. Nor will it open its arms to the Child, which will go unrecognised and even be despised and mocked. Yet, in that day will be produced a salve to heal the scars of mankind. In that day, when men shall have forgotten the way of righteousness and turned from Truth. the light will come unto them.” These words were spoken by God. (Kolbrin, Manuscripts-Annexed Scroll#1)
An example of quotes from 300’s BC from Greek historian Theopompus showing that BEFORE the time of Christ, the concept of a Millennium where Satan is bound already existed. As well as the concept that the Zodiac or Precession cycle was baked into the cultural religions, and that it was split into 3000 year periods, each ruled by a ‘god’ or dispensation head of some sort.
They have also many stories to relate concerning the gods, for example that Horomazes… created six gods, the first three deities respectively of good-will, truth, and orderliness, the others of wisdom, wealth, and a good conscience. By the latter rivals as it were to these were formed of equal number. Then Horomazes extended himself to thrice his stature as far beyond the sun as the sun is beyond the earth, and adorned the heaven with stars, appointing one star, Sirius, as guardian and watcher before all. He made also other twenty-four gods and placed them in an egg, but Areimanius produced creatures of equal number and these crushed the egg . . . wherefore evil is mingled with good. At the appointed time however Areimanius must be utterly brought to nought and destroyed by the pestilence and famine which he has himself caused, and the earth will be cleared and made free from obstruction, the habitation of a united community of men dwelling in happiness and speaking one tongue. Theopompus further reports that according to the magi for three thousand years in succession each of the gods holds sway or is in subjection, and that there will follow on these a further period of three thousand years of war and strife, in which they mutually destroy the works of one another. Finally Hades will be overthrown, and men will be blessed, and will neither need nourishment nor cast a shadow. And the deity who has accomplished these things will then take rest and solace for a period that is not long, especially for a god, and moderate for a sleeping man. To this effect then is the legendary account given by the magi. (Plutarch ca. 100 A.D. Cumont, ii, p.33-36, De Iside et Osiride, ch. 46. Theopompus lived in the 4th c. B.C.)
He fashioned Time of Long Dominion as the first creation that was infinite. Before the Mixture, the perpetuity of Ohrmazd was fashioned finite from the infinite. For from the primal creation, when he created the creatures, to the end, when the Evil Spirit will become powerless, there is a measure of twelve thousand years, which is finite…
On the Fashioning of the Lights
These are excerpts from The Bundahišn, The Zoroastrian Book of Creation. (Domenico Thrope Translation, Oxford Press). As you can see it is DEEPLY steeped in astronomical ideas mixed with religion, and tied in with the precessionary cycle cut into 3,000 year segments. Note the FIXED stars are EXACTLY the same as what Joseph smith wrote in the Egyptian translation book
He fashioned Time of Long Dominion as the first creation that was infinite. Before the Mixture, the perpetuity of Ohrmazd was fashioned finite from the infinite. For from the primal creation, when he created the creatures, to the end, when the Evil Spirit will become powerless, there is a measure of twelve thousand years, which is finite…
1 Ohrmazd fashioned the lights and set them between the sky and the earth: the “fixed” stars (constelations) and the wandering stars (planets), then the moon, and last the sun. 2 This is how: First, he fashioned the firmament and set the “fixed” stars in it, foremost among them the twelve signs of the Zodiac called Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces. These are further divided and reckoned in twenty-seven lunar mansions that are called Padēwar. 5 He appointed four generals over those stars, one for each of the four directions, and he appointed a single general over these four. He appointed many well-known, counted 1 stars, in every direction and everywhere, with the aim to invigorate and strengthen the stars. 6 As itsays: “Sirius is the general of the east, Deneb is the general of the south, Vega is the general of the west, and Ursa Major is the general of the north.” Polaris, which they call “the stake 2 in the center of the sky,” is the supreme general. The star Pārand, the star Mazdā-dād, and others of this kind are also district commanders. 7 Astronomers now call these inerrantes stars, and instead of “large,” “small,” and “medium,” they use the expressions “first magnitude,” “second magnitude,” and “third magnitude.” On the Fashioning of the Lights. 8 He established the firmament like the year: the twelve constellations are like the twelve months, and each constellation has thirty degrees, just as each month has thirty days. 9 He appointed Ursa Major in the north, where hell would be established after the Adversary’s onslaught. In order to arrange the continents during the Mixture (movement), a band ties each of the seven [haft/attached] continents to it. That is the reason why it is called Ursa Major [Haftōring]. 10 Ohrmazd established the sphere of the stars like a spinning wheel, so that during the Mixture (nightly movement) it would keep revolving. 11 He fixed other, unmixable (unmoving) stars above these, so that when the Adversary came they could repel him in battle and keep him from carrying his pollution higher up. He appointed the Glory of the good Mazdā-worshiping dēn as general over them. That place is called “the core of the battle,” the manifestation of purity in the Mixture. The reason why they are called unmixable (unmovable) stars is because the Adversary did not pollute them. Astronomers call this “the sphere above the sphere.” This sphere has no reckoning and progression, for they cannot observe in the pure ones any characteristics of the mixable ones. 12 Above that he fashioned the moon in which the seed of cattle is stored, 13 and above that the sun whose horses are swift. 14 He appointed the sun and moon as captains of the mixable and unmixable stars; that is, they are all bound to the sun and moon. 15 Above the sun he fashioned the place of the Amahraspands, which are fastened to the endless light, the throne of Ohrmazd. 16 These are the six stations of the six creations (planets), corresponding to the six material creations.. 15 Again, a period of six thousand years elapsed before the Adversary came: three thousand years in a spiritual state and three thousand years in a pure material state. Those six thousand years were from Aries to Virgo, each constellation ruling one thousand years.
Cosmic history is thus divided into four periods of three thousand years each. (On the chronolology of arabs of twelve thousand years)
In other words, they saw the most important astronomical cycles as 1. The 24,000 year precession cycle. 2. The precession cut in half as a summer and winter or 12,000 each. 3. Then those halfs cut into quarters or FOUR periods of 3,000 years. So in all they cut the 24k precession INTO EIGHT SEGMENTS. They overlaid 8 onto 12. Or the Lunar cycle onto the Solar.
Summary of Key Sources with 3,000-Year Cycles
Bundahishn (Zoroastrian cosmological text):
Describes four periods of 3,000 years each, divided into phases of creation, conflict, and ultimate restoration.
The Yashts (Zoroastrian liturgical texts):
These texts describe the long duration of time when the forces of good and evil are in opposition, culminating in the final victory of Ahura Mazda.
Pahlavi Texts (Middle Persian Zoroastrian scriptures):
References to long cosmic cycles of 3,000 years, spiritual struggle, and eventual cosmic renewal.
The Shahnameh (Persian epic):
Though not directly a Zoroastrian text, it incorporates Zoroastrian motifs of divine rule and the cyclical rise and fall of divine reigns, influenced by the broader Zoroastrian cosmological view.
https://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.png00MormonBoxhttps://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.pngMormonBox2026-01-27 16:05:382026-01-28 12:54:45Pre-Christian Prophesies of the Messiah (Christ)
The Tucson artifacts, sometimes called the Tucson Lead Crosses, Tucson Crosses, Silverbell Road artifacts, or Silverbell artifacts, were thirty-one lead objects that Charles E. Manier and his family found in 1924 near Picture Rocks, Arizona.
The find consisted of thirty-one lead objects, including crosses, swords, and religious/ceremonial paraphernalia, most of which bore Hebrew or Latin engraved inscriptions, pictures of temples, leaders’ portraits, angels, and a dinosaur (inscribed on the lead blade of a sword). One contained the phrase “Calalus, the unknown land”, which was used by believers as the name of the settlement. The objects also have Roman numerals ranging from 790 to 900 inscribed on them, which were sometimes interpreted to represent the date of their creation. The site contains no other artifacts, no pottery sherds, no broken glass, no human or animal remains, and no sign of hearths or housing
History On September 13, 1924, Charles Manier and his father stopped to examine some old lime kilns while driving northwest of Tucson on Silverbell Road. Manier saw an object protruding about 2 inches (5.1 cm) from the soil. He dug it out, revealing that it was a lead cross measuring 20 inches (51 cm) and weighing 64 pounds (29 kg). Between 1924 and 1930 additional objects were extracted from the caliche, a layer of soil in which the soil particles have been cemented together by lime. Caliche often takes a long period of time to form, but it can be made and placed around an article in a short period of time, according to a report written by James Quinlan, a retired Tucson geologist who had worked for the U.S. Geological Survey. Quinlan also concluded that it would be easy to bury articles in the soft, silt material, and associated caliche in the lime kiln where the objects were found at the margin of prior trenches. The objects were believed, by their discoverer and main supporters, to be of a Roman Judeo-Christian colony existing in what is now known as Arizona between 790 and 900 AD. No other find has been formally established as placing any Roman colony in the area, nor anywhere else in North America.
In November 1924, Manier brought his friend Thomas Bent to the site and Bent was quickly convinced of the authenticity of the discovery. Upon finding the land was not owned, he immediately set up residence there, in order to homestead the property. Bent felt there was money to be made in further excavating the site.
The Tucson artifacts consisted of 32 objects. 8 crosses, 9 swords, 13 spear pieces, 1 paddle/fan and 1 caliche tablet.
Latin Inscriptions The first object removed from the caliche by Manier was a crudely cast metal cross that weighed 62 pounds (28 kg); after cleaning it was revealed to be two separate crosses riveted together. After his find, Manier took the cross to Professor Frank H. Fowler, Head of the Department of Classical Languages of the University of Arizona, at Tucson, who determined the language on the artifacts was Latin. He also translated one line as reading “Calalus, the unknown land“, giving a name for the supposed Latin colony.[1]
The Latin inscriptions on the alleged artifacts supposedly record the conflicts of the leaders of Calalus against a barbarian enemy known as the “Toltezus“, which some have interpreted as a supposed reference to the MesoamericanToltec civilization. However, the Latin on the artifacts appears to either be badly inflected original Latin, or inscriptions brazenly plagiarized from Classical authors such as Virgil, Cicero, Livy, Cornelius Nepos, and Horace, among several others. This has led many experts to condemn the artifacts as frauds. What is perhaps most suspicious, however, is that most of the inscriptions are identical to what appeared in widely available Latin grammar books, like Harkness’s Latin Grammar and Allen and Greenough’s Latin Grammar, as well as dictionaries like The Standard Dictionary of Facts.
Views on authenticity Manier took the first item to the Arizona State Museum to be studied by archaeologist Karl Ruppert. Ruppert was impressed with the item, and went with Manier to the site the next day where he found a caliche plaque weighing 7 pounds (3.2 kg), with inscriptions that included a date of 800 A.D. A total of thirty-one objects were found. Other contemporary scholars including George C. Valliant, a Harvard University archaeologist who visited the University of Arizona in 1928, and Bashford Dean, curator of arms and armor at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, thought the articles were fakes. Neil Merton Judd, curator of the National Museum at the Smithsonian Institution, happened to be in Tucson at the time of the discovery of the objects and, after examining them, also thought they were fakes, proposing that they may have been created by “some mentally incompetent individual with a flair for old Latin and the wars of antiquity.”
Supporters In the 1960s, Bent wrote a 350-page manuscript entitled “The Tucson Artifacts,” about the objects, which is unpublished but kept by the Arizona State Museum. Both Manier and Bent were supporters of the objects as a genuine archaeological find.
Approximate location of the Silverbell Artifacts site in Tucson near the intersection of N. Silverbell and W. Sunset Roads
Lara Coleman Ostrander, a Tucson immigrant and high school history teacher studied the historical background of the research, and translated the alleged history of Calalus from the writings on the items. Geologist Clifton J. Sarle worked with Ostrander to present the Tucson Artifacts to the press and the academic profession.
Tucson University administrator and director of the Arizona State Museum Dean Byron Cummings led archaeologists at the university to the location where the items were found. He brought ten of the objects to the American Association for the Advancement of Science and showing them at museums and universities on the east coast. Astronomer Andrew E. Douglass, known for his work in dendrochronology also considered the items to be authentic.
In 1975, Wake Forest University professor Cyclone Covey re-examined the controversy in his book titled Calalus: A Roman Jewish Colony in America from the Time of Charlemagne Through Alfred the Great. Covey was in direct contact with Thomas Bent by 1970, and planned to carry out excavations at the site in 1972, but was not allowed, due to legal complications preventing Wake Forest University from leading a dig at the site.[3] Covey’s book proposes that the objects are from a Jewish settlement, founded by people who came from Rome and settled outside of present-day Tucson around 800 AD.
Skeptics Professor Frank Fowler originally translated the Latin inscriptions on the first items and found that the inscriptions were from well known classical authors such as Cicero, Virgil and Horace. He researched local Latin texts available in Tucson at the time and found the inscriptions on the lead items to be identical to the texts available.
Dean Cumming’s student and excavator, Emil Haury, closely examined scratches on the surface of the objects as they were removed from the ground and concluded that they were planted, based partly on a cavity in the ground which was longer than a lead bar removed from it. After Cummings became president of the university, his views changed in an unclear manner, possibly due to Haury’s skepticism, or the increasing sentiment that the items were nothing more than a hoax and as university president had to take a different stand on the matter. George M. B. Hawley staunchly opposed Bent’s views about the objects. Hawley even accused Ostrander and Sarle as perpetrators of the hoax.
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A more detailed background of the find is given in these excerpts of the article, ‘The Tucson Artifacts Hoax‘ by Carl Feagans in Archaeology Review .
“This is the story of how a family outing turned into the discovery of over 30 artifacts–most of them made of lead–that some people think demonstrate the existence of a Roman settlement in the Tucson area around 775-900 CE.
In the sun-baked desert landscape of 1920s Tucson, Arizona, a family went for a drive on Silverbell Road leading northwest out of town then stopped at an old lime kiln for a look around. Even in 1924–a hundred years ago–this was an old site. It was probably built in the late 1800s then abandoned decades before this family outing. One that turned into a historical puzzle that some folks are still debating even today.
A lime kiln at the approximate location of the Silverbell/Tucson Artifacts site. Note the caliche layers. Photo from Google Earth.
Charles Minear, along with his wife, daughter, and father stopped along this road that wouldn’t even be paved for many years to come. It was September 13th, but make no mistake, they weren’t enjoying the fall weather. The high for that day was 100 degrees Fahrenheit (almost 38 C). Until 2020, Tucson’s low rainfall record was 5.07 inches that year in 1924.
You also didn’t do an outing like this in an air-conditioned sedan. Your Ford Model T might have been cooled a little with a block of dry ice that you picked up at the gas station and had installed in a special bracket in the floorboard of the car.
While poking around the old lime kiln, Manier’s father noticed a piece of metal sticking out of the ground near the kiln. So Manier went to the car and grabbed a pick and a shovel he had in the trunk then the pair used them to excavate a 17.5 inch tall lead cross that was stuck in a caliche layer 65 inches deep.
The reason it was spotted is because the ground was cut away between the kiln and the road, leaving a steep bank with visible stratigraphy.
Long story short, the Manier family took the cross home, cleaned it up, and noticed that it appeared to be two pieces stuck together. Prying them apart, they found inscriptions inside on both pieces.
As it happens, a neighbor of the Minears was the wife of Professor A.F. Kinnison from the University of Arizona and she knew a Latin inscription when she saw one. So off to the University the artifacts went. A waxy substance found between the two halves was reported to be a petroleum by-product, but ended up tossed out by accident. But a date initially translated from the text was 800 CE.
Manier joined forces with Thomas Bent and together they excavated over 30 more artifacts from the site. Many of the artifacts had inscriptions so they enlisted the help of Laura Ostrander who helped translate and sketch them. It was Ostrander who revealed the story of Calalus, a Roman settlement in what is now Tucson, Arizona but existed between 775 and 900 CE. According to the inscriptions.
Along with the lead artifacts (crosses, swords, spears, and a fan-shaped object), a 12” caliche plaque was recovered. On it were “crudely drawn heads and several inscriptions” (Burgess 2009).
The Dinosaur Motif
One of the reasons many people give for considering the Tucson artifacts a hoax is the ‘dinosaur’ drawing on the hilt of one of the ceremonial sword (seen at left in following image). This however is incredibly short sighted, as dinosaur motifs are quite common in middle-age art with motifs dating back to Egyptian and Babylonian times (apparently those cultures had fossil hunters too!). The fact is that this image actually strongly suggests authenticity not a hoax! What clever forger in their right mind would draw a dinosaur on his fake artifacts if they were trying to convince people that these were Frankish artifacts! See this great article for many other examples of legitimate dinosaur motifs in ancient art and architecture.
Left bottom & top, Sauropod dinosaur on Tucson artifact sword. Center top: Sauropods on Bishop Bell’s tomb Carlisle Cathedral, England (built 1122 AD), Bottom center: Narmer Palette from Egypt 3100 BC. Right top: several medieval age dinosaur motifs depicting St. George and the dragon. Bottom right: jasper cylinder seal, Babylon 3500 BC.
All the 32 total artifacts were made of lead except the caliche plaque:
8 crosses
9 swords (whole or pieces)
13 spears (whole or pieces)
1 paddle or fan
1 caliche tablet
Artifacts are currently housed Arizona History Museum 949 E. 2nd St, Tucson, AZ
Though the artifacts were in the form of swords and spears, they were likely not actual weapons due to their weight and the nature of the material. Lead is typically not a metal that can be sharpened or expected to hold an edge. Although ancient cultures often added significant amounts of arsenic to harden soft metals. (For example the Bronze age copper/arsenic sword found in Italy and sourced from Armenia.)
There were a variety of damage, tool marks, nicks, and breaks to the artifacts. None were consistent with damage one might expect from a battle or normal use.
There were no artifacts or features located in the immediate area of the kilns, although there are many archaeological sites dating to as far back as the first millennium BC in the Tucson area.
The artifacts were scattered as opposed to a central location as one finds with caches of hunting weapons (eg. the Wenatchee Clovis cache) or with religious or ceremonial items (eg. Cucuteni-Trypillia figurine caches in Europe).
The stratigraphic context of the artifact finds is interesting. They were found at depths ranging from 54 to 78 inches. The stratigraphy of the region includes layers of gravel, sand, and silt from a Pleistocene alluvial fan older than 10,000 years BP. The caliche layer was between 48 and 72 inches below the surface and many of the artifacts were in or through this layer.
Up close images of the Latin and Hebrew writing on the Tucson artifacts.
The Inscriptions
Following is a full compilation of the inscriptions found on the various relics. On the vertical beam of the lead cross is this inscription.
“ A.D. 800, Jan. 1.” “We are borne over the sea to Calalus, an unknown land where Toltezus [Toltec] Silvanus ruled far and wide over a people. Theodore transferred his troops to the foot of the city Rhoda and more than seven hundred were captured. No gold is taken away. Theodore, a man of great courage, rules for fourteen years. Jacob rules for six. With the help of God, nothing has to be feared. In the name of Israel, OL.” –Death of Israel in “the War.”–
The second cross has the following inscription:
“Jacob renews the city. With God’s help Jacob rules with mighty hand in the manner of his ancestors. Sing to the Lord. May his fame live forever. OL.
The third cross yielded this inscription.
“From the egg [the beginning] A.D. 700 to A.D. 900. Nothing but the cross. [by suffering] While the war was raging, Israel [the ruler] died. Pray for the soul of Israel. May the earth lie light on thee. He adds glory to ancestral glory. Israel, defender of the faith. [Israel, defender of the faith, adds honor to ancestral honor]. Israel reigns sixty-seven years.”
The next inscription.
“Israel II rules for six. Israel III was twenty-six years old when he began to rule. Internecine war, To conquer or die. [A war of mutual extermination, Either to conquer or die.] He flourishes in [his?] ancestral honor day by day.”
Brackets above are an alternate interpretation. The latin word ‘internecine’ means: ‘mutually destructive or deadly, especially referring to conflicts within a group, like a civil war or an internal feud. It can describe a conflict that is both bloody and destructive to all sides involved’. Thus an internecine war is a war of mutual extermination or destruction, one where you must conquer or die.
Prepare for either event but hope is not yet crushed.
By the grace of God.
Time having elapsed, from adversity comes
the source and origin of our miseries, the
last day comes and the inevitable time.
I am present.
The Lord be with you.
The next inscription.
“A.D. 880. Israel III, for liberating the Toltezus [Toltecs], was banished. He was first to break the custom. The earth shook. Fear overwhelmed the hearts of men in the third year after he had fled.
They betook themselves into the city and kept themselves within their walls. A dead man thou shall neither bury nor burn in the city.
Before the city a plain was extending. Hills rung the city. It is a hundred years since Jacob was king. Jacob stationed himself in the front line. He anticipated everything. He fought much himself. Often smote the enemy. Israel turned his attention to the appointment of priests. We have life, a people widely ruling. [or ‘Life is to us a people of extensive sway’] OL.”
“A.D. 895. An unknown land. Would that I might accomplish my task to serve the king. It is uncertain how long life will continue. There are many things which can be said while the war rages. Three thousand were killed. The leader with his principal men [or cheifs] are captured. Nothing but peace was sought. God ordains all things. OL.”
Inscribed on the bottom portion of the first cross, and translated from Latin, found was:
We are carried north over the sea to Calalus an unknown land where people were ruling widely. The Toltesus were lead over the wooded land. Theodorus brings up his forces the city Rhodda and more than seven hundred are captured. No gold shall be taken from the city. Theodorus a man of great courage rules fourteen years James rules six years. With God’s help there is nothing to be afraid of. In the name of Israel. James renews the city. With God’s help James rules with mighty hand in the manner of his ancestors. Sing to the Lord. May his fame last forever.
On the upper half of this cross were the Latin words for, “In Memoriam Councils of great cities with seven hundred soldiers A.D. 800–Jan.” Below these words on two lines were the incised drawings of 3 people.
Above and below the first person (left lobe of the cross) were the words “Britannia,” “Albion,” and “Jacobus.”
Above and below the second person (center): “Romani,” “Aetius,” and “Theodorus.”
Above and below the third person (right lobe): “Gaul,” “Seine,” and “Israel.”
The above inscriptions are interpreted to represent three sequential kings or rulers, listed with the region & country of their heritage. So Jacobus of Albion (Dover) England, then Israel of of Seine (Paris area) in France. With the identity/ heritage of Theodorus being far more cryptic — Aetius being the name of a fifth century Roman general from Romania/Bulgaria (who fought extensively in France, and might have been named after a region of the same name in Romania? (Although Romani typically refers to an indo-European people or gypsies displaced into Europe from the Punjab of India). The first Visigoth King Theodoric I, joined forces with General Aetius in 451 to fight the Huns (and Vandals). Also of note, Theodoric the Great was an revered Gothic king from 470-526 AD whose statue was moved in 801 A.D. by Charlemagne from Ravenna, Italy to Aachen Germany by Charlemagne. Making him a cultural hero of the time, and a favorite Gothic name. So these names might have been re-used in the 800’s as a form of cultural nationalism. (likewise Jacobus would likely have been a Visigothic name — whereas Israel would of course be a Jewish name.)
A final inscription which speaks of fourth century events seems to support this theory.
Benjamin was king of the people. They came from Seine to Rome. The bravest of the Gauls. He came to the assistance of the people to lay the foundation of the city. He built a wall around the city to resist the enemy. Benjamin mighty in strength he filled the multitude with religion. He was slain by the Thebans. I heard this from my father five hundred years after, behind the mountain. In memory of his father. (see this link for all translations)
nce in the Punic wars between Carthage & Greek/Egypt (Thebes). Maybe this explains Fatima’s hand and Carthaginian items in the new world? Did Benjamin’s death mentioned in Mosiah 6:5, happen in the New World or Old World?
One of the crosses had a serpent entwining it with a Latin inscription with a mixed short Hebrew inscription. A cross bearing a crescent at the top included images of angels and Masonic symbols along with an inscription also in Hebrew.
This may all be made up from myth, but it’s at least worth looking into. Especially since Queen Batilde and Clovis II might fit into the 700-900 AD date for the Tuscon artifacts fairly well. Including the Theuderic matching with the name and perhaps time written on the artifacts. The geneology might also originate in Middle Age Authurian grail stories as they somewhat match the 1-10th Grail Kings or Grandmasters of the Order of the Grail. (such as Geoffrey’s Historia Regum Britanniae, Read here & here or Chrétien de TroyesPerceval, the Story of the Grail available here or here). Or there might be more truth to grail myths than we currently believe.
[Make a map of all the runic writing found in America, with all the following artifacts.]
Viking/Norman & Austronesian trade realms, and their proven incursion into America nearly 500 years before Columbus.
[Add the SEVERAL roman coins found in the New World, especially the Sicily Coin found near Phenix City Alabama dating to 490 BC, and the Roman coin found dating to ~800 AD in a Mound near Round Rock Texas in an archaeological dig for a new Highway.. See References in ‘Pre-Columbian Old World Coins in America: An Examination of the Evidence‘ by Jeremiah F. Epstein. There is even a blog speculating of a lost roman province because of the coins.]
The Spirit Pond Rune Stone
Pictures of the Spirit Pond Rune Stones found in Maine, near Popham Beach. Alleged as a hoax by many experts and believed by others. Upper left is SP1 (the map stone), Bottom right is the amulet stone (SP4). Lower left, the Inscription Stone (SP3). SPR. An INCREDIBLY detailed study of the stones can be read here. (photo credit Scott Walters)
Flora Vista Elephant Slabs
Found by a youth named Dick (Richard) Terrell in the early 1900s at the Flora Vista Ruin (New Mexico), an Ancestral Pueblo (Anasazi) site located on a bluff above the Animas River, opposite the town of Flora Vista, in northwestern New Mexico. Around 1910, the slabs were acquired by a Farmington, New Mexico businessman named Avery Monroe Amsden (considered fraudulent, but strangely similiar to the Popham Beach, Main runic inscription).
The Narragansett Rune Stone
The Narragansett Runestone, also known as the Quidnessett Rock, is a 2.5 t (2,500 kg) slab of metasandstone located in Rhode Island, United States. It is 5 feet high and 7 feet long. The stone is inscribed with two rows of symbols, which some have indicated resemble runes, characters used by Germanic peoples starting around the second or third century CE, with variants used in Anglo-Saxon and Scandinavian cultures during the medieval period.
Medieval Inscription … in Rhode Island’s Narragansett Bay. This Runic inscription is only visible for twenty minutes a day at low tide–is this also the work of a modern-day, Runic-speaking hoaxster?
The Westford Boat Stone
Medieval Ship Carving … in Westford, MA. Found near the Westford Knight site. Weathering patterns of carving are consistent with that of 600-year-old artifact. And why would a Colonial trail-marker depict a knorr, a 14th-century ship?
The Kensington Rune Stone
Medieval Inscription… in Minnesota. Forensic geology confirms the carvings predate European settlement of Minnesota–so did Runic-speaking Native Americans carve it?
The Hooked X Rune
Medieval Runic Character … on inscriptions found in Maine, Minnesota and Rhode Island. But this rare rune was only recently found in Europe. This conclusively disproves any hoax theory while also linking these three artifacts together.
The Main Penny
The Maine penny, also referred to as the Goddard coin, is a Norwegian silver coin dating to the reign of Olaf Kyrre King of Norway (1067–1093 AD). It was claimed to be discovered in Maine in 1957, and it has been suggested as evidence of pre-Columbian transoceanic contact
The Maine penny (right) next to the same minted year pennies from the Norway Gressli Hoard (left).
The Newport Tower
Medieval stone tower … in Rhode Island. Does it look like any other Colonial structure you’ve seen? Recent carbon dating of the mortar indicates 1400s construction date.
The Westford Knight Sword
Medieval Battle Sword … in Westford, Massachusetts. Can anyone deny the pommel, hilt and blade punch-marked into the bedrock?
The Maine Minoans
In 1975, Michael Rose was digging a house foundation on the banks of the Penobscot River, near Old Town, 10 miles north of Bangor, Maine. At about a dozen feet down, his shovel unearthed a curious, little metal-lic object. It was a flat rectangle approximately 1inch long by three-quarter-inch wide and thin as a dime. The obverse shows what appears to be a woman standing in a doorway. She wears a flounced shirt and a high, pointed cap, with a large necklace hanging to her midriff. Her right hand is extended beyond or in front of the doorway, and in her left she cradles either a snake or a fan with serpentine handle. The reverse displays the punch mark that created the female image on the opposite side. The object may be made of a silver-nickel alloy. (recorded in Atlantic American. From Lost History and Legends)
https://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/image.png381678MormonBoxhttps://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.pngMormonBox2025-05-11 17:15:502025-12-16 16:45:23The Tucson Artifacts & Other Pre-Columbian Relics in North America
OUTLINE OF SOLID EVIDENCE FOR PRECOLUMBIAN GLOBAL TRADE
Unmistakable Old World motifs in La Venta Monument 19 & Izapa Stela
The Jewish Radhanite Trade Guild from the writings of
The story of Prince Madoc
The writings of Brendon the Navigator
Evidence of Pre-Viking rhunic inscriptions in America
The Tucson Artifacts: more evidence of Toltec/Frankish alliance & colonization
The writings of Ixtlilxochitl (three groups, validate much of the Tucson artifacts)
The Toluca Etruscan figurine and Roman architecture in Mitla & Teotihuacan
The Kolbrin account of Jewish/Egyptian global trade network (much like Radhanite accounts)
Note that the linchpin that these histories rest on is the idea that the Mideviel Jewish merchant shipping guild, The Radhanites (extensively documented by the ninth century Babylonian historian Ibn Khordadbeh) began as early as the Phoenician alliance between King Hyrum of the Phoenician and Solomon. And that by the middle ages this group maintained a global trade network that became seated in the Jewish Kingdom of Septimania (Languedoc-Roussillon, Rhone River ports in Southern France) and Jewish adjacent Khazar State (centered in Ukraine, Russia/Armenia & Kazakhstan) of the same era. Note the Jewish names and records of the kings of these dynasties are clear in their roles as exilarchs to the Babylonian Jewish center.
Research of Dr. Nathaniel Jeanson
Many of these ideas are being explored by Harvard educated Nathaniel Jeanson. Still dismissed by most mainstream academic educations, well educated professors like Dr Jeanson are relegated to private fringe religious institutions to continue their research. But the concepts are incredibly interesting and worth consideration.
Introduction “Extraordinary events were taking place in the year 775. Baghdad was the capital of the world, which formed, for the first time in history, an international ecumene, a unified trading zone. At this exact moment, a group of Gallo-Roman traders and Frankish expeditionary forces including Jews from Brittany, Wales, and Gaul called Rhadanites or Rhodanites set sail from Rome’s port to voyage to Egypt, Palestine and Persia, seeking the fabled riches of Terra Incognita beyond India and China. Jews everywhere looked for the appearance of the Messiah: It was seven hundred years after the fall of Jerusalem and destruction of the Jewish state under the Romans. Now the Holy Land was a protectorate under Charlemagne, the son of Pepin. Commerce was booming. Knowledge and science were about to enter upon a renaissance. The Papal States sprang into existence, to last another thousand years. Charlemagne had just conquered Italy and allied himself with both the Byzantines and the Abbasid Caliphate. The illiterate, six-foot-tall, squeaky-voiced Frank, who adopted the name David and was to go through as many wives and concubines as his biblical namesake, was thirty years old. A steely leader, he had a brilliant career of ruthless conquests and canny political maneuvers before him, one that would make him the first Holy Roman Emperor and earn him the title in posterity of Father of Europe as well as insure his place as the foremost hero in the nascent epic literature of France, Italy, Spain and Germany, the so-called Matter of France, or chansons de geste. Mercantile empires were forming in Central Asia. Revolution had toppled the Umayyad caliphate, replacing it with the Abbasids under Al-Mansur. Baghdad was considered the world’s most powerful and sophisticated metropolis. Harun Al-Rashid would found the famed House of Wisdom there, a research center to rival the ancient library at Alexandria. The Tang Dynasty ruled in China and soon reached the zenith of its innovative and creative contributions to world civilization. Both the Tang capital and their major port at Canton numbered over a million inhabitants within their city walls. By 900, much of this cultural and economic upsurge was gone, erased by the hand of history in catastrophic developments that swept the Christian as well as Arab world and extended from West to the East. As the elderly Oliver in Calalus signed the last entries and inscribed his final surviving words on artifacts exhumed in Arizona more than a millennium later, civil war gripped the Toltec colonies in ancient Mexico. Violent northern tribes wiped out Roman Rhoda in a single day. The Tang Dynasty fell. The Abbasid Caliphate slipped into decline amid success and dissension. The squabbling heirs of Charlemagne tore apart his empire with bloody feuds while murderous bands of armed nobles trampled peace underfoot in city and countryside. The Papacy became a sewer of corruption and depravity, entering its lowest point. Judaism was riven with internal schism and apostasy, while anti-Jewish tendencies swelled to alarming proportions among Christians, to peak during the First Crusade. Viking and Muslim raids laid waste most of Europe. There followed a century, as it has been called, without writing, without recordkeeping, in Western Europe and large parts of the world. Latin decayed, morphing eventually into French, Italian and Spanish, its place taken in barbarian lands by German, Anglo-Saxon and other previously unknown tongues. Climate change buried the Tucson Artifacts under a six-foot mudslide on the Santa Cruz river. Trade ground to a halt and the sea lanes to China and across the Pacific Ocean stagnated and slowed. The new Dark Ages would not begin to lift until after the year 1000, which most of Christendom expected to usher in the Resurrection and last judgment of souls. If the end did not come as expected, the new Fatimid caliph Al-Hakim’s razing of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem and destruction of all churches, monasteries, manuscripts, synagogues and Torah scrolls in 1009 sent a thunderclap throughout the West as resounding as the sack of Rome by the Goths in 410. The story of merchant-adventurer Jews active in pre-Columbian America must be understood against the backdrop of early medieval history and cross-cultural perspectives. Although they called themselves Romans, and the first three kings came from France, these long-distance voyagers were part of an international trading world that extended from Far West to Far East, touching points in Arabia, Africa, India, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Indonesia. The founders of Rhoda spoke Frankish, Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, Persian, and Slavonic, as noted by the Arab geographer Ibn Kurradadhbah in his famous description of them as Rhadanites. This term can be traced to Rhodes (Isle of Roses), the source of important colonies and all commercial law in the ancient Mediterranean. The present ―reader‖ offers an eclectic selection of texts and documents aimed at illuminating some of the cultural interconnections and economic horizons. Most readings are excerpts translated from Latin, but some are taken Arab, Hebrew, Old French, and even Chinese sources. They range from a Buddhist monk’s description of Fu-Sang, early church councils and the emperor Justinian’s codification of Roman civil law in the early sixth century to Arab geographers and copper plates of Indian rulers in ninth century Kerala. With the notable exception of the Book of Josippon, a prime Hebrew historical source, which was composed in the eleventh century, a good many of these collateral texts coincide with and are contemporaneous with the very time frame of the Tucson Artifacts. Four accounts of the coronation of Charlemagne in Latin sources relate to the year 800, mentioned on the Great Cross. The Carolingian embassy to Harun Al-Rashid and inventory of hostels and churches in Jerusalem come from the same period. So too the charming tale preserved by Notker the Stammerer of Charlemagne’s identification of a Viking longboat in Narbonne, which we reprise here as proof that Breton merchantmen traded in the Mediterranean as well as ships owned by Jews.”
Map of Eurasia showing the trade network of the Radhanites (in blue), c. 870 AD, as reported in the account of Ibn Khordadbeh in the Book of Roads and Kingdoms; other trade routes of the period are shown in purple. The following authors show evidence that the Radhites merchant guild also had colonies in America.
Writings of Nezir Katan (the Monk)
Far more detail into the story that can be woven from these texts (albeit more speculative and less well referenced. Much of the following quotes are excerpts from Nezir Katan’s blog calalus.blogspot.com. Nezir Katan is a Monastic Catholic Jew who has done historical research for more than 40 years in the ancient Jewish records, as well as modern books by others interested in the same topics. He was educated in Western Australia and now lives in New Zealand as part of a community of monks. He lives out of the public eye and wishes for no recognition or notoriety. His work has been published by others in a two volume work available here on Amazon. (An excerpt of the sourced published work can be read here).
[Nezir Katan lives as a Monk in Lower Sandy Bay Tasmania in a Jewish Catholic commune called “The Little Eucharistic Brothers of Divine Will”. (Part of of the “Apostles of Perpetual Adoration“). Which began in Perth at St Bernadette’s Parish on May 13 2013 by a Father Doug Harris. They moved to the Sandy Bay Parish in Tasmania in 2014, led by parish priest Father Michael Tate and then to Taroona where they rented the presbytery of St Pius X Church (part of the Sandy Bay Parish) and attend St Mary of the Cross (McKillop) in Ranelagh at the invitation of a Father Tate. (background here)]
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“In the 1920’s in Tucson Arizona were found objects and writings in Latin, Greek and Hebrew with both Catholic and Jewish ritual objects and symbols. Cyclone Covey describes this discovery in his book “Calalus: A Roman Jewish colony in America from the time of Charlemagne through Alfred the Great”. Covey and other researchers are amazed at the mixture of Jewish, Christian and Kabbalistic objects and symbols.
However, this very much fits this period in the 8th century when in the Carolingian Empire there is a Jewish Principality in southern France called Septimania ruled by Theodoric of Narbonne (Makhir Todros ben Judah/Magnario/Aimeri/Amer) [born 710 died or abdicated 765]. Many members of this family descended from the Exilarchs of Babylon embraced a Jewish form of Catholicism while other members remained outwardly orthodox Jews.
One of Nezir’s main premises is that ancient authors wrote commonly of the New World, but translators have, because of bias, failed to see the ancient names as New World places and thus they have been ascribed to Old World locations. One example is the dual usage of the place name ‘Laurentia’, a place commonly referring to America from early times, but reassigned to West Italy by renaissance translators. For instance, Livy uses the term in his history written around 10 AD.
Similar misfortunes led to Aeneas becoming a wanderer, but the Fates were preparing a higher destiny for him. He first visited Macedonia, then was carried down to Sicily in quest of a settlement; from Sicily he directed his course to the Laurentian territory. Here, too, the name of Troy is found, and here the Trojans disembarked, and as their almost infinite wanderings had left them nothing but their arms and their ships, they began to plunder the neighbourhood. The Aborigines, who occupied the country, with their king Latinus at their head, came hastily together from the city and the country districts to repel the inroads of the strangers by force of arms…. Ascanius was succeeded by his son Silvius, who…planted a number of colonies: the colonists were called Prisci Latini. (Writings of Livy, Book 1)
Was this reference citing a location in Western Italy near modern Castel Fusano (ancient Ostia and Lavinium), or is Livy talking about a far away place in America?
Another example is Pliny who wrote around 50 AD about the islands beyond Britain and Iceland to a land called Thule with a Frozen sea which sounds a LOT like the Hudson Bay.
Opposite to this coast is the island called Britannia, so celebrated in the records of Greece and of our own country… This last island is situate beyond Britannia… The most remote of all that we find mentioned is Thule, in which, as we have previously stated, there is no night at the summer solstice, when the sun is passing through the sign of Cancer, while on the other hand at the winter solstice there is no day. Some writers are of opinion that this state of things lasts for six whole months together. Timæus the historian says that an island called Mictis is within six days’ sail of Britannia, in which white load is found [ferrosilicon?]; and that the Britons sail over to it in boats of osier [willow], covered with sewed hides. There are writers also who make mention of some other islands, Scandia namely, Dumna, Bergos, and, greater than all, Nerigos, from which persons embark for Thule. At one day’s sail from Thule is the frozen ocean, which by some is called the Cronian Sea. (Pliny the Elder, The Natural History. Book 4 ch 30, 77 AD)
Just prior to the above quote, Pliny accurately mentions Britain’s size and circumference, before explaining that the Greeks are well acquainted with the land. And in our day it takes 4-5 days to sail from Britain/Scotland to Iceland which we can assume is the ‘Mictis’ mentioned by Pliny. But the other islands beyond are surely Greenland with ‘Nerigos‘, the greatest of all being the Canadian mainland among the islands of Baffin Bay. (which are literally as close to Greenland as Iceland).
So if the Greeks and Romans during Pliny’s time (around 2000 years ago!) knew of Greenland and America, is it hard to imagine that since Roman times, the place name Amorica might have been wrongly ascribed to north Gual/France instead of the New Word (the name actually predating the common fallacy that America was named after Amerigo Vespucci, but instead was known as America by the secretive trade guilds that occasionally visited it).
For instance is it so far fetched then to assume that when Pliny mentions the land of Aremorica (later Amorica), that the reason why he confuses it with “Aquitanian Gaul” in northern France is because he is reading about it in older Greek records and confusing this land “beyond” the sea with that “across” the sea. (see Pliny Book 4 ch. 31).
This isn’t so unbelievable given Pliny’s mention of Greenland and likely America and that the Greek Plato, was speaking of Atlantis (mostly likely America) as early as 400 BC! Listen to the language Plato uses to describe this mythical far off place…
For it is related in our records how once upon a time your State stayed the course of a mighty host, which, starting from a distant point in the Atlantic ocean, was insolently advancing to attack the whole of Europe, and Asia to boot. For the ocean there was at that time navigable; for in front of the mouth which you Greeks call, as you say, ‘the pillars of Heracles,’ there lay an island which was larger than Libya and Asia together; and it was possible for the travelers of that time to cross from it to the other islands, and from the islands to the whole of the continent over against them which encompasses that veritable ocean. For all that we have here, lying within the mouth of which we speak, is evidently a haven having a narrow entrance; but that yonder is a real ocean, and the land surrounding it may most rightly be called, in the fullest and truest sense, a continent. Now in this island of Atlantis there existed a confederation of kings, of great and marvelous power, which held sway over all the island, and over many other islands also and parts of the continent. And moreover of the lands here within the Straits they ruled over Libya as far as Egypt, and over Europe as far as Tuscany. So this host, being all gathered together, made an attempt one time to enslave by one single onslaught both your country and ours and the whole of the territory within the Straits. And then it was, Solon, that the manhood of your State showed itself conspicuous for valor and might in the sight of all the world. For it stood pre-eminent above all in gallantry and all warlike arts, and acting partly as leader of the Greeks, and partly standing alone by itself when deserted by all others, after encountering the deadliest perils, it defeated the invaders and reared a trophy; whereby it saved from slavery such as were not as yet enslaved, and all the rest of us who dwell within the bounds of Heracles it ungrudgingly set free. But at a later time there occurred portentous earthquakes and floods, and one grievous day and night befell them, when the whole body of your warriors was swallowed up by the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner was swallowed up by the sea and vanished; wherefore also the ocean at that spot has now become impassable and unsearchable… (Plato. “Timaeus”. Section 24e-25a.)
These accounts are soon followed by more transoceanic tales, such as that of Brenden the Navigator in the fifth century who is known for his legendary voyage to find the “Isle of the Blessed” which is sometimes referred to as “Saint Brendan’s Island” (America). The written narrative of his journey comes from the immram Navigatio Sancti Brendani Abbatis (Voyage of Saint Brendan the Abbot).
The Saint Brendan Society celebrates the belief that Brendan was the first European to reach North America. Tim Severin demonstrated that it is possible for a leather-clad boat such as the one described in the Navigatio to reach North America. The Navigatio was known widely in Europe throughout the Middle Ages. Maps of Christopher Columbus’ time often included an island denominated Saint Brendan’s Isle that was placed in the western Atlantic Ocean.
Paul Chapman argues that Christopher Columbus learned from the Navigation that the currents and winds would favour westbound travel by a southerly route from the Canary Islands, and eastbound travel by a more northerly route on the return, and hence followed this itinerary on all of his voyages. (Wikipedia, Brenden the Navigator)
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Calalus artifacts from Tucson
The Calalus records speak of a Theodorus as the leader of many peoples who leave the Roman lands for Calalus in 775 AD. Covey and others believe that Theodorus is a Jewish leader in the city of Rome. However this is a too literal reading of the term Rome. Theodorus is none other than the Jewish King of Septimania – a Roman Jewish state in southern France. He is the son of the first Jewish King of Septimania also called Theodoric (Theuderic/Thierry/Aimeri de Narbonne/ Makhir Todros). Theodorus (Dietrich/Theodoric/Amery l’Chetif/Nehemiah/Namon/ Aumer ben Aumer) is also known as Theodoric King of Saxony and as Namus Duke of Bavaria.
He and his brothers were great Warrior Davidic princes of the time of Charlemagne. Professor Arthur Zuckerman in his book “A Jewish Princedom in Feudal France” confuses him with his father who bears the same Frankish names of Theuderic and Aimeri. On the death or abdication of his father Makhir Theodoric in about 765 AD Nehemiah Theodoric becomes the Western Exilarch and leader of all the Jews of the revived Western Roman Empire of Charlemagne.
In 775 AD Nehemiah Theodoric reconquered the American Empire of Calalus. Calalus was ruled by the ‘Silvanus Tolteczus’ [Solomon the Builder] the hereditary ruler of this former Jewish ruled Roman colony. Calalus was re-founded in the 1st century BC by the Babylonian Exilarch known as Silvanus Ogam or Silvanus Brabo (Solomon II Babylonian Exilarch, Nasi of Mara, Ruler of Sumer (Somerset) in Britain) a great Roman Jewish ruler, soldier and ancestor of the Swan Knights (Barbur haKatzin).
He also had a fleet of trading vessels known as the ships of Solomon or the Swan boats. The ships are shaped like a Swan with its sails like the wings of a beautiful gliding white Swan. After the defeat of the Silvanus Toltezus the members of the Royal Family were sent back to Europe where they were under the protection of Nehemiah Theodorus and his family.
The legends of Doon and Ogier are based on the activities of this family descended from Duon (Duon) Antigoon (Ogier) and Silvanus Brabo (Solomon Barbur). The legends of Ogier the Dane [son of Godfred (Cadrod)] and Doon de Mayence actually refer to the Tuatha de Danaan or Dunann who are also known as the Mananaan or Maine of America where the giant Ogre heads of the Olmec are found. The Irish legend of Regamon also allude to this family.
The Jews of this ancient Roman Jewish Kingdom of Rhoda were also known as the Rhodans or Radhanites and were great Jewish merchants who controlled the ancient trade routes. The Rhone Valley and river were named after these Jewish Radhanite merchants who used the Rhone Valley as a base for their trading empire.
Many of them settled in Ireland in the first centuries AD uniting with their cousins descended from St Joseph of Arimathea. Isaac Kalonymus the son of Nehemiah Theodoric [of Ripaurien] was also known as Isaac the Radhanite. Ibn Khordadbeh’s account of the Radhanites stresses their source somewhere beyond the Western Sea and the land of the Franks.
In the fifth century Calalus was part of the Revived Western Empire of King Arthur a descendant of the Swan Knights. By the eighth century due to admixture with the American Indians the state had reverted to paganism. Nehemiah Theodorus led an expedition in 775 to return Calalus to Jewish and Roman rule. He conquered the ancient city of Rhoda and the Jewish law was restored.
After 4 years in 779 AD Nehemiah Theodorus left Calalus for his kingdom in France which he had left in the hands of his brother Guillame de Gellone (Mar Nathan Kalonymus)[b.739 d.812). He then appointed a British Davidic Prince Jacob as the Jewish King of Calalus as regent for his young son Israel who was married to Jacob’s daughter. Jacob was a descendant of King Arthur as well as the Jewish Royal family of Bernicia. Jacob was the leader of the British Jewish settlers in Calalus. The Roman Jewish Settlers of Calalus in the 8th century were made up of two main groups – the Latin Jewish group from the Frankish Empire and the British Jewish group from the British Isles.
The Olmec/Ogre image which the Ogre is based on
Nehemiah Theodoric ha Makhiri reigned in Germany until his death in 790 AD. He was one of Charlemagne’s leading advisers. He learnt about the land of Calalus from Gerard a member of the Swan Knight family that came to Charlemagne’s court in a Swan boat. He married Adalis a daughter of Nehemiah (aka Duke Namon). The Swan Knight’s ancestors had come to Ireland from Calalus in the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD and intermarried with the descendants of Nathan the Red (Nathan the Rhodan) a grandson of Mar Joseph of Arimathea.
Mar Joseph was a grandson of Silvanus Ogam or Brabo (Barbur) the great Roman Jewish warrior who defeated the giant American Emperor of Ogam or Ogier called Druon Antigoon in later European legends. Druon means oak and describes the stature of Antigoon. The Ogam script was named for Silvanus Ogam (Solomon II/ Shalom/ Sulam/ Selim/ Silvius/Salvius /Salvo)who brought it from America to Europe. Ogam or Ogham is the legendary home of the Ogres and I believe that they refer to the Olmec culture of Mexico.
Mar Joseph’s grandson Nathan had travelled to America with his kinsman Nathaniel Bar Tolmai (St. Bartholomew). Nathaniel was a grandson of Silvanus Ogam the Jewish ruler of Calalus. Solomon II ben Nathan I Zisutra was succeeded as Babylonian Exilarch by his son Nathan II Ukba, as Ruler of Somerset and the tin mines by his son Mar Chunya the father of Mar Joseph of Arimathea and as Ruler of Calalus by his son Mar Tolmai ha Barbur the father of St. Bartholomew. St. Bartholomew is remembered in America as Quetzalcoatl the white bearded priest. His son Eliud ha Barbur was the father of Silvanus Tolmai the ruler of Atala (America) and the Lord Master (Baal) of Anahuac/Anu (Mexico) and Calalus (North America).
On Nehemiah Theodorus’ return to the Frankish Roman Empire in 779 he left his brother as the Jewish ruler of Septimania and he became the Jewish ruler of the German lands of Bavaria and Saxony in Germany under Charlemagne’s authority. His son Isaac Kalonymus (also called William of Gellone like his uncle) later in life with his wife became Catholics and he is remembered as St William of Gellone. He has been confused with his uncle Nathan Kalonymus (b.739 d.812) who was also known as William of Gellone and Toulouse who was involved in fighting the Muslims.
St William Isaac of Gellone and Toulouse (b.755 d.814 as a monk) as a new Christian went to visit his brother Israel I of Calalus and converted him to his mystical Jewish brand of Catholicism as practiced by the royal and noble families of Western Europe. Israel I had become the King of Calalus in 785 AD on the death of his father-in-law Jacob. In 800 AD Isaac Kalonymus and his two converted brothers Benjamin and Judah went to reinforce the colony with 700 soldiers.
Israel I and many of the people embraced Catholicism under the teaching of the three converso brothers of the Makhiri dynasty (Magnarvm). Israel I established his brothers as High Priests of Calalus. From this time Calalus becomes a Jewish Catholic state with a ritual and spirituality derived from both Jewish and Catholic sources. Israel I Guriat reigned for 67 years until 852 AD when he was succeeded by his son Israel II (852-858). St William Isaac of Gellone was two years in America (800-802) which was also known as the Isles of Barzel (Iron/Brazil) and from this time he also was known as Barzillai or Barzelay.
Israel II ha Magnarvm (Merfyn/Merwan/Mermin/Makhiri) spend some of his earlier years in Septimania and Wales where his son Israel Septimus (or Israel the Septimani) was born in 832 AD. Israel II as Merfyn became King of Gwynedd in 825 in right of his mother the granddaughter and heiress of King Cynan. In 844 Merfyn left Wales for Septimania with his other children, leaving his son Mar Jacob ha Rhodri as King of Gwynedd. He was known as Rhodri Mawr.
Israel Merfyn returned to Calalus (which was called Manaan in Wales) and succeeded his father as Israel II. Israel III Septimus became King of Calalus in 858 at the age of 26. He fought many battles and later he granted the conquered pagan Tolteczas independence in 880. He was deposed by the Sanhedrin of Calalus and his son Israel IV replaced him and Israel III was banished.
Israel IV began a campaign of war against the Tolteczas that would lead to the eventual end of the colony in the 10th century. The descendants of Israel III Septimus’ son Isaac became the Priest-Kings of the Toltecs who moved south to Mexico. They abolished the human sacrifices of the natives but they were restored (c.1018) after the Rhodans left America.
Another Nehushtan of Calalus
Israel III went south to the Toltec lands of Mexico and his grandson Makhir/Americ (Meurig in the Welsh genealogies /Mixcoatl of the Toltecs) was the grandfather of Topiltzin (Israel VII/Idwal) priest of Quetzalcoatl who left Cholula for Rhoda in about 1000 AD. He rejoined the remnant of the Rhodans who he led east and then back to Europe and some of the Latin Jewish Rhodans settled in North Western Spain where as trained Warriors they were welcomed in the fight to preserve the freedom of North Western Spain from the Muslims.
Rhodrigo El Cid was Topiltzin’s great-grandson. Topiltzin’s son was called Lain Calvo (Lancelin of Calalus/Lachlan/Llewellyn). Rhodrigo El Cid and his father Diego Lainez (Jacob) married into the Davidic Exilarch family of Barcelona and Este. His daughter Maria Rodriguez was the wife of Raymond Berenger IV Arnold Count of Barcelona [descended in the direct male line from Guibelin (Gui Alberic/Bellon/Yakar ben Judah) of Narbonne, the youngest son of Makhir Todros of Septimania]. Lain Calvo’s sister Ximena of Calalus married Fernan Nunez of the Counts of Amaya family. Some genealogists have confused the ancestors of this family of the El Cid.
The British Jewish Rhodans settled in Wales. In the 12th century their descendants in Wales went with Prince Madoc ap Owain to America where they established themselves in a series of forts in Alabama and Georgia. The ‘Alabama Welsh’ website states in regards to Prince Madoc:
“…In 1170AD, ten small ships assembled off Lundy Island in the Bristol Channel, which flows between South Wales and Southern England. He and his ten ships were never heard from again. It was many years later when the archeological discovery of European style structures in the Southeast, built centuries before Columbus’ journey, prompted a review of the Welsh histories of Madoc’s voyage. A series of pre-Columbian, dressed stone fortifications built up the Alabama River were discovered by later settlers. Three major forts, completely unlike any known Indian structure, were constructed along the route that settlers arriving in Mobile Bay would have taken. The first fort, erected on top of Lookout Mountain, near Desoto Falls, Alabama was found to be nearly identical in setting, layout and method of construction to Dolwyddelan Castle in Gwynedd, the presumed birth place of Madoc of Wales…”.
It is said that the white Indian tribe of the Mandan were the descendants of these Welsh settlers. The Basque and Portuguese descendants of the Latin Jewish Rhodans went to America after 1492. Another group of the Jewish Rhodans never left America and they eventually moved to the Appalachian Mountains and were later called the Melungeons. Prince Madoc was a descendant of King Jacob ben Israel ha Rhodri (or “the Rhodan”) (aka Iago ap Idwal) of Wales. King Jacob (Iago) of Gwynedd (1033-1039) was the brother of Lain Calvo (or Lancelin of Calalus)of Spain. His father was King Israel VII of Calalus (999-1018) not King Idwal of Gwynedd (950-979) as supposed in some genealogies.
Some researchers have sought to discredit the Tucson discoveries. They claim that it was the cult objects of a Freemason group because of the mixture of Jewish, Christian and Kabbalistic symbols and because of the poor use of Latin. However the Kabbalah came forth from the region of Septimania through the Makhiri family. Many other factors that were not commonly known in the 1920’s and the 19th century confirm for me that these discoveries are indeed genuine and they fit with the evidence from numerous other sources found in the mythology, legends, genealogies and histories of Spain, France, Ireland, and Britain among others.
There are still many anti-semitic forces who do not want to see this Jewish connection with the history of America. The cult objects of the Nehushtan and the monstrance and chalices, menorah and the prominence of the Cross demonstrate the religion of Rhodan Calalus is a Jewish brand of Catholicism centred on Eucharistic Adoration themes. The Serpent (Nehushtan) raised in the wilderness is a Eucharistic symbol of the Messiah raised up on the Cross and also raised up in the Monstrance.
Covey writes:
“Besides the names of the kings, much else on gunbarrel blue to light-lead gray artifacts confirms the colony to be Jewish: a menorah with seven burning candles, a pair of Hebrew goblet-chalices (habdalah), incense spoons, burning incense…and words in carefully-drawn Hebrew script…Their central symbol of the cross, though not unknown to Jewish tradition, was atypical…two of the crosses were nehushtans…”
The feathered Serpent associated with Topiltzin as priest of Quetzalcoatl recalls these Nehushtans that were the symbol of the religion of Rhodan Calalus. Topiltzin’s grandfather Makhir (Americ) Mixcoatl is also associated with the Serpent (nahash) and is known as the Cloud Serpent. These heavenly Serpents are the Seraphim of Jewish tradition. Topiltzin’s grandfather Mixcoatl is also associated with the colour ‘Red’- and rhoda means Red. In some accounts Mixcoatl is referred to as the father of Topiltzin but there is disagreement with this in other American Indian traditions.
Another reason that academics are so keen to dismiss these discoveries is they provide evidence that some dinosaurs lived in historic times as one of the swords discovered has a diplodocus dinosaur on it. The ruins of Angkor Wat in Asia also demonstrate that 800 years ago the builders of Angkor Wat knew what a Stegosaurus looked like long before the modern day discovery of dinosaur artifacts… [creationism tangent omitted]
Another 1925 article on the discovery states:
“The articles have been found at about the same level, that is, between five and six feet below the surface, and in a well- cemented stratum of caliche, the caliche, or lime formation, being so hard that it is necessary to chop each piece out with a pick. There is no evidence of burial, either in recent or in historic times; in fact, the articles have been covered by a natural process of the washing down of the debris from above, until time has resulted in building up of from five to six feet of overhead. The many scientists who have assisted in the research are unanimous in the opinion that the covering-over process has taken many hundreds of years; in fact, their conclusions tend to place the age of the relics at about the eighth century.”
Donald Panther-Yates in his book “Los Lunas Mystery Stone” also believes that the symbols on the objects have their source in the Kabbalah of the Frankish Roman Jewish Kingdom of Septimania rather than a later masonic source. He also sees Kabblaistic symbols on the Los Lunas Stone.
Dr. Covey has said in acommunication to Jack Andrews in 1999:
“Concerted efforts to discredit (the age of the find) have found no way to insert heavy lead objects up to 6 1/2 feet deep through caliche tolie flat, without fracturing the formation conspicuously”.
Ancestry of Prince Madoc
Henry I Sinclair, Earl of Orkney, (c. 1345 – c. 1400) son and heir of Sir William Sinclair, Lord of Roslin (see nearby Rosslyn chapel), was a Scottish nobleman, best known today because of a modern legend that he took part in explorations of Greenland and North America almost 100 years before Christopher Columbus.
Prince Madoc ab Owain Gwynedd (also spelled Madog) was, according to folklore, a Welsh prince who sailed to the Americas in 1170. (Some 50 years after Viking settlement L’Auxse Meadows was founded in 1120 AD)
Makhir Todros ben Yehuda (Amorai/ Theodoric)[b. 710 d.765] Western Exilarch and Jewish King of Septimania.
Mar Nehemiah Theodorus ha Makhiri (Deitrich/Namon) [b. 735 d.790] Ruler of Ripaurien, Saxony, Bavaria (779-790) and King of Calalus (775- 779) Jewish King of Septimania (765-775) [Note the Ripuarii/Riparii were a unit who fought under the Roman Aetius, against Attila in ~450 AD. Thus Ripaurien Franks of the Rhineland may have called themselves after Aetius, and thus the inscription with Theodoru of Aetius, the Romani].
King Israel I Guriad ha Makhiri (Magnarvm) of Rhoda and Calalus (b.770 d.852) [brother of St. William Isaac of Gellone (b.755 d.814)] married Atala (Ethyl) daughter of Jacob (Iago) of Gwynedd and Bernicia King of Calalus (779-785) son of Cynan (Chunya) of Gwynedd.
King Israel II Magnarvm (ie. Merfyn Frych/ Mermin/ Merwan/ Makhiri) of Rhoda and Calalus (b.805 d.858) married Nest of Powys daughter of King Cadell
Prince Isaac ha Nehushtan (Quetzalcoatl) of Rhoda Priest-King of the Toltecs [younger brother of King Israel IV of Rhoda and Calalus 883-920] [b.856 d.921]
Prince Makhir of Calalus (Meurig/ Mixcoatl of the Toltecs/ Americ) Priest-King of the Toltecs [b.900 d.974] [cousin of King Israel V of Rhoda and Calalus 920-955] married Chimalman (Ximena/ Chimena) daughter of Israel IV of Calalus
Isaac (Huacmar/ Huetzin) Priest-King of the Toltecs [b.930 d.977] [cousin of Israel VI of Calalus 955-994]
King Israel VII ha Nehushtan of Rhoda and Calalus 999-1018 Priest- King of the Toltecs 977-999 King of Gwynedd 1023-1033 (Idwal of Wales/ Topiltzin Quetzalcoatl of the Toltecs) [b.960 d.1033] married Ximena of Rhoda daughter and heiress of King Israel VI
King Iago ap Idwal (Jacob ben Israel ha Rhodri) of Gwynedd 1033-1039 [b.990 d.1039] [younger brother of Mar Isaac ha Nehushtan (Huacmar Quetzalcoatl) of the Toltecs and Prince Lancelin of Calalus (Lain Calvo of Castile)] married Sussanah of Barcelona
Prince Cynan ap Iago the Rhodan (Chunan ben Jacob ha Rhodri)[b.1020 d.1060] married Princess Ragnhild of Dublin
King Owain I of Wales (Prince Madoc’s father. b.1100 d.1170)
Prince Madoc ap Owain of Gwynedd (b.1100? d.?) Prince Madoc ab Owain Gwynedd (also spelled Madog) was, according to folklore, a Welsh prince who sailed to the Americas in 1170
Rhodrigo El Cid (b.1043-d.1099) was Topiltzin’s great-grandson. Topiltzin’s son was called Lain Calvo (Lancelin of Calalus/Lachlan/Llewellyn). Rhodrigo El Cid and his father Diego Lainez (Jacob) married into the Davidic Exilarch family of Barcelona and Este. His daughter Maria Rodriguez was the wife of Raymond Berenger IV Arnold Count of Barcelona [descended in the direct male line from Guibelin (Gui Alberic/Bellon/Yakar ben Judah) of Narbonne, the youngest son of Makhir Todros of Septimania]
The British Jewish Rhodans settled in Wales. In the 12th century their descendants in Wales went with Prince Madoc ap Owain to America where they established themselves in a series of forts in Alabama and Georgia. The ‘Alabama Welsh’ website states in regards to Prince Madoc:
“…In 1170AD, ten small ships assembled off Lundy Island in the Bristol Channel, which flows between South Wales and Southern England. He and his ten ships were never heard from again. It was many years later when the archeological discovery of European style structures in the Southeast, built centuries before Columbus’ journey, prompted a review of the Welsh histories of Madoc’s voyage. A series of pre-Columbian, dressed stone fortifications built up the Alabama River were discovered by later settlers. Three major forts, completely unlike any known Indian structure, were constructed along the route that settlers arriving in Mobile Bay would have taken. The first fort, erected on top of Lookout Mountain, near Desoto Falls, Alabama was found to be nearly identical in setting, layout and method of construction to Dolwyddelan Castle in Gwynedd, the presumed birth place of Madoc of Wales…”.
It is said that the white Indian tribe of the Mandan were the descendants of these Welsh settlers. The Basque and Portuguese descendants of the Latin Jewish Rhodans went to America after 1492.
(Check out how crazy close to the Book of Mormon this story is.. especially when combined with the Kolbrin/Ixtlilxochitl accounts of the giants/Olmec who I already suspected was Mosiah liberating the people of Zarahemla. Also combine with the time confusion I detail below..
Above and below the first person (left lobe of the cross) were the words “Britannia,” “Albion,” and “Jacobus.”
Above and below the second person (center): “Romani,” “Aetius,” and “Theodorus.”
Above and below the third person (right lobe): “Gaul,” “Seine,” and “Israel.”
The above inscriptions are interpreted to represent three sequential kings or rulers, listed with the region & country of their heritage. So Jacobus of Albion (Dover) England, then Israel of of Seine (Paris area) in France. With the identity/ heritage of Theodorus being far more cryptic — Aetius being the name of a fifth century Roman general from Romania/Bulgaria (who fought extensively in France, and might have been named after a region of the same name in Romania? (Although Romani typically refers to an indo-European people or gypsies displaced into Europe from the Punjab of India). The first Visigoth King Theodoric I, joined forces with General Aetius in 451 to fight the Huns (and Vandals). Also of note, Theodoric the Great was an revered Gothic king from 470-526 AD whose statue was moved in 801 A.D. by Charlemagne from Ravenna, Italy to Aachen Germany by Charlemagne. Making him a cultural hero of the time, and a favorite Gothic name. So these names might have been re-used in the 800’s as a form of cultural nationalism.
The following final inscription which speaks of fourth century events seems to support this theory.
If we assume this was written with the others around 800-900 AD then the attack on Rome spoken of would be around 300-400 AD. Could it be referring some battles associated with the Vandal Sack of Rome in 410 AD, and the shoring of the Walls by Emperor Honorius in 401 AD? Or perhaps more likely the famous walls of Ravenna (new Rome) in 402 AD, ‘built up’ as the new Roman capital by Emperor Honorius who ‘laid the foundations’. Note that Attila the Hun’s dad’s name was Benjamin, and Attila fought Aetius in Gaul, and attacked Rome in 452, and made a deal with the Pope where he got a kingdom? (He died or disappeared the next year.)
A wilder possibility however, is that this is written around 360 AD, and ‘500 years [before]’ refers to about 140 BC, when King Benjamin in the Book of Mormon happened. Do you see how wild it is that these numbers are even possibilities, (whether accurate or off). The ‘foundation of the city’ and ‘wall’ could easily be the Parisii settlment or oppidum/walled fort on the banks of the Seine built between 250 and 225 BC. Wikipedia states,
“Between 250 and 225 BC, during the Iron Age, the Parisii settled on the banks of the Seine. At the beginning of the 2nd century BC, they built an oppidum, a walled fort, whose location is disputed. It may have been on the Île de la Cité, where bridges of an important trading route crossed the Seine. In his account of the Gallic wars, Julius Caesar recorded meeting with the leaders of the Parisii on an island in the Seine. Other historians cite an absence of traces of an early Gallic settlement on the island, and believe the oppidum was actually in Nanterre, in the Paris suburbs, where vestiges of a large settlement were discovered during construction of a highway in the 1980s” The settlement was called “Lucotocia” (according to the ancient Greek geographer Strabo) or “Leucotecia” (according to Roman geographer Ptolemy)”
The ‘Thebans’ could be some type of alliance between the Carthaginians and Greeks? (-lance)
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Among the the artefacts found in Tucson Arizona known as the Calalus Artefacts is found an inscription in which it describes a great leader called King Benjamin who is both a Gaul and from Seine. The Latin text has been translated as:
Benjamin was king of the people. They came from Seine to Rome. The bravest of the Gauls. He came to the assistance of the people to lay the foundation of the city. He built a wall around the city to resist the enemy. Benjamin mighty in strength he filled the multitude with religion. He was slain by the Thebans. I heard this from my father five hundred years after, behind the mountain. In memory of his father.
Some researchers have read this as a Jewish king called Benjamin that came from the Seine River in France to Rome to build the Aurelian Wall in the 3rd century AD. In fact this legend is set not 500 years before the time of OL but more like 1400-1500 before OL and in the early 4th century BC. Certain speculations have been made of the meaning of OL but there is a Welsh name Ol who was the son of Olwydd (meaning Track son of Tracker) in the Arthurian literature. Could it be a pun that he refers to himself as the one that will “track” the history of his people.
This Benjamin was also known as Brennius or Brennus who attacked Rome in 390 BC and the Wall was not the Aurelian Wall but possiby the Servian Wall. However it is not clear if the text is referring to the walls of Rome or Rhoda. Benjamin or Brennius was the war leader of the Gauls and King of the Senones (the Seine of the artefact).
The Senones are descendants of the Tribe of Simeon and belong to R1b DF27 y-dna. Among the settlers of Calalus there are many descendants of the Senones Tribe as is probably OL (the scribe of the Calalus artefacts) and his father. This Benjamin or Brennius should not be confused with the later Milesian leader Breoghan or Brennius who led the combined Gaelic and Celtic forces against the Greeks in the Balkans in 280 BC.
It is also very likely that the Roman writers and the legends based on their accounts confused the events of the attack of Brennius on Rome with his conquering of Calalus from the Olmecs in the sources they drew on for their histories. They have mistakenly identified Clusium in Italy with Calalus in America.
Thus it would seem that the Jewish King Benjamin of the Senones was the leader of the Jewish Simeonites that moved to Gaul after the destruction of the Jewish Temple and then united the Gauls and attacked Rome and rebuilt its walls. Then with a combined army of Senones, other Gauls and Romans they sailed to America and Calalus and conquered the city of Rhoda. It was at this time they first encountered the ancestors of the Frisians, Angles and Chauci of R1b U106 Z381 y-dna descended from the Tribe of Zebulon . It may have been this force under the leadership of Benjamin that freed them from Olmec overlordship.
In the past I had thought that the Roman connection with Calalus had occurred around 100 BC under the Roman Jewish leader Silvanus (Solomon), now I think it may be that Silvanus came to reinforce the already existing but embattled Senones-Roman colony. Thus the first Roman contact occurred in the 4th century BC around 380 BC. The Roman accounts of the attack of the Senones on Clusium need a new and revised reading. It would seem that the Calalusians were led by a man called Aruns or Aaron who would be the possible leader of the oppressed Zebulonites (Zapotecas). The Olmec or Toltec King or Governor of Calalus (the Ku) was called Lucumo by the Romans. Were these Olmec/Toltecs connected to the Etruscans? We do know they both practiced the cult of human sacrifice.
Could the walls that Benjamin built or rebuilt be the limestone city and walls of Rhoda in Calalus rather than Rome? Was the enemy the Olmecs or Toltecs? Was it the Olmecs or Toltecs that were the Thebans that killed Benjamin? Some scholars think that the whole story of Clusium was fiction as it didn’t fit the events in Italy at that time. However this is because it was in fact about the events occurring in far away Calalus.
The timeline I may not agree with totally but I think in this case that Jeanson basically has it right. These Tribes are entering the area of the USA after 1000 AD when the former white population (as I discuss in other posts such as Calalus etc) has been slaughtered or fled with only a small number of white survivors in the Tennessee, Alabama and Georgia area and possibly some hidden in the Appalachian Mountains. The white Kingdoms, Principalities and Queendoms were overrun by Toltec-Olmec (Talegs/ Otagil/ Tagil) peoples of mainly Q1a y-dna of the Ishmaelites in Mexico. Q y-dna used to be divided into Q1a and Q1b but now Q1b- L275 y-dna is called Q2 and the old Q1a y-dna became Q1a-MEH2 and Q1b-M346 (but is now called Q1a2).
One group of the Toltecs or Tolteca moved north from Mexico and drove the white population out of Arizona and surrounding areas known as Calalus. The Chontal Tabascan branch of the Toltecas landed in their ships and established a base near Tampa in Florida and from there drove the Mayans and possibly Cododuans out of America. At this stage it is not clear to me if it was the Toltecas coming from the west or the Chontals from the east, that destroyed the Cadodu Queendom and assimilated the women and some of the men into the Tolteca group that established Cahokia (Talega). [After watching Jeanson’s 3rd presentation he seems to answer that for me.]
Biography of Author ____
“When I was studying my teaching degree at the Australian Catholic University in Melbourne in 1990…I did a course on Biblical Hebrew at Melbourne University before 1990. When I was at the Australian Catholic University in 1993 to complete my education… in 1995 I studied Biblical Greek for the first time. I also studied Modern Hebrew in Jerusalem in two Uphans in 2002 and 2008. I would later in my Masters of Theological Studies degree between 2016-2019 study Hebrew, Greek, Latin and Aramaic.” (link)
His Geological (creationist) timeline is unworkable (because he believes Cambrian to Permian deposits are the flood), but otherwise is the closest to one thats actually workable that I’ve ever seen… (read it here)
More interesting takes on Calulus history (link here)
He Seems to Study Archaeology a Good Bit
“We know that around 100 AD the Romans were already experimenting and using see through glass windows. Did these Brochs originally have a partially glass roof that let in the light? Were the stone walls also given a daub and whitewashing coating to make them more water resistant? Did they add ochre (limonite) to this mixture to give the Brochs a golden -yellow appearance with a shining glass roof, which looked like a giant shining pearl from the distance. At the excavations of the Glastonbury Lake Village archeologists have found fragments of hard backed yellow clay, which is believed to be daub from the roundhouse buildings at this site. Thus it is likely that the Grail Chapel on Glastonbury Tor also had this yellow coloured daub and is why the later Brochs also used this kind of yellow ochre.”
https://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.png00MormonBoxhttps://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.pngMormonBox2025-05-11 14:10:042025-05-24 07:55:01The Lost Global Empires: Emerging Historical Evidence for Extensive Pre-Columbian Contact
In this article, I will attempt to show as persuasively as possible, the INSURMOUNTABLE problem behind the idea proposed by Michael P in his YouTube video titled “Where was the west sea in The Book in Mormon?”
As a prelude, let me start by saying I love the inquisitive, problem solving approach Michael P is aiming at in this video and all his videos. But let me also make clear, that as a geologist who has worked for the Geologic Survey for 20 years specializing in geologic teaching and visualizations, Michael just doesn’t understand the science behind what he’s proposing. I’ve also worked for 20+ years to find ways the reconcile scriptural ideas such as Noah’s Flood or catastrophic destructions spoken of in the Book of Mormon with geologic evidence. And can say categorically, that the ideas proposed in this video are simply IMPOSSIBLE given the evidence.
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Put simply Michael obviously does not yet understand the evidence which makes his theory impossible.
There are hundreds of archaeological sites, which date to before the time of Christ, UNDER his proposed sea. (Were these cities built underwater by ancient mermaid colonies? Or if you don’t trust the dates, why do you use them to date the Hopewell/Adana sites you use to match with the Jaredites/Nephites.)
The Western Interior Seaway (actually called the Cretaceous Interior Seaway) existed during the Geologic Periods of the Cretaceous & Paleocene geologic periods. Geologically dated to 150-55 million years ago. (Dinosaurs are found in these layers.) The evidence of this ancient seaway comes from geologic deposits that greatly PREDATE or are OLDER than the geologic layers under the oldest archaeological sites in the world such as the Great Pyramids, Gobeki Tep, Babylon or Jerusalem. So even if you thing geologic dates are wrong, this sea would have dried up long before Moses, Abraham or the Jaredites.
First off, let me help readers understand WHY, we geologists believe the Western Interior Seaway exists. Geologists can tell where oceans anciently existed because of the deposits the ALWAYS leave. And to understand those layers, one needs to understand the laws of superposition and Walther’s law of Facies stacking. Which Basically say that large lakes and ocean systems all have beaches, deltas, entering river system and deep water environments which all leave unique types of sediment deposits. Beaches leave sand, tidal flats leave tidal deposits, rivers leave gravels and muds, deltas leave muds and silts, offshore deposits create mudstone and limestone’s, etc. A trained geologist understands the differences between these units and how they stack over time as sea levels rise and fall, and can use the boundaries of those deposits to map the ancient shorelines.
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Its the relationship between these well mapped rock/sediment types that has allowed geologists like myself and Ron Blakey to create the ‘paleogeography’ or ancient landscape maps which Michael uses in his video.
I have similar maps I have created on my popular geologic site, Utahgeology.com on my ‘geologic history section. (link here). In this page, you can move the time slider and see the ocean come and go. You can also go to other tabs to see the drill cores or “stratigraphic columns” of underground layers that these maps are based on.
You can see an animation of these seas as they come and go through time in this YouTube video.
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Another way to explore the geologic units which are used to create these maps is available here. (I make maps like this for a living, and was among the first geologists in the world to do so… creating a world renown interactive mapping application for the state of utah here.
What I’d like to impress upon readers from this is how horribly Michael has inadvertently misrepresented the data which we geologist have provided to the public. To suggest that the Cretaceous Western Interior Seaway, which went all the way from Utah to Illinois, existed UNTIL THE TIME OF CHRIST, one has to completely disregard the following stratigraphic relationshps.
That the Rocky Mountains formed AFTER the Western Interior Seaway. (so for Michael P’s theory to be right, the Rocky Mountains uplift and erosion has all happened in the last 2000 years)
That the Wasatch Mountains, AND THEN the deposition of up to 10,000 feet of sediment came off them, AND THEN the formation of Lake Bonneville, AND THEN the three stage draining of Lake Boneville and formation of the Salt Flats… ALL occurred well AFTER the Western Interior Seaway. In other words those Cretaceous deposits sit under all these deposits, so for Michael P’s theory to be right, ALL these deposits and events happened AFTER the time of christ 2000 years ago.
But… there are archaeological sites dating to Jaredite times sitting ON TOP of all the above deposits. So now we run into an impossibility.
So just to illustrate. The layers labeled “grey cliffs” in this illustration of Utah’s grand staircase are the layers deposited in that sea way. (AND THAT WAS THE LAST TIME THERE WAS AN OCEAN IN THE US GREAT PLAINS).
And those ‘grey cliffs’ which are made of sediments deposited in the Interior Seaway, traverse much of the state of Utah, and can be followed across the Rocky Mountains to Kansas and Iowa. (see Pierre Shale). And they sit THOUSANDS OF FEET BELOW sections of Lake Bonneville deposits. Which sit below layers with woolly mammoth fossils and earliest paleo Indian sites dating to 9000 BC such as Danger Cave or Lovelock Cave in Nevada which heartlanders often associate with Jaredite or preAdamites. But how can that be if these OLDER artifacts are ONTOP layers that were deposited BEFORE the time of Christ? It simply DOES NOT WORK.
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Again, note that that ‘animated’ visualization above shows that the western interior seaway came down from Canada to split the continent in two. (not the ‘geologic date’ on the left pane is the date given by various geologic dating methods like Argon/Uranium series/zircon dating, which even if you want to contest it as an absolute date, can not be contested as a relative date) MEANING… the small sea you see at about 60 million years ago in the great plains PREDATES (sits well underneath) the deposits showing the rise of the rocky mountains, Wasatch mountain, lake Bonneville, and archaeological sites like the one’s I’ve spoken of.
Note that as a geologist I’m open to geologic dates being wrong or skewed. There is evidence that neutrinos currently affect radiometric decay rates by small amounts, so maybe we could hypothesize that in the past galactic conditions caused MASSIVE acceleration of radiometric decay. So one could suggest that the earliest fossils (which date to 500 mya) actually are 6000 years old. BUT there’s a lot of difficulties with that stance, when it comes to varve dating and the amount of geologic change in the stratigraphic record. But at least its at least within reason.
However, the law of superposition, dictates what is ‘within reason’. And that which breaks the law of superposition is impossible. And those who propose theories which break it, show they are ignorant. They suggest not just that radiometric dating or varve dating or tree ring dating is wrong (which is possible), but that the impossible.
https://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.png00MormonBoxhttps://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.pngMormonBox2025-03-31 13:07:542025-03-31 13:22:47NO. The Western Interior Seaway Did NOT Exist Just Before the Time of Christ.
https://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.png00MormonBoxhttps://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.pngMormonBox2024-12-30 18:15:172025-01-06 16:27:02Some of my Favorite LDS Conference Talks
The following are posts written by Barry Bickmore. A Geology professor from BYU. (I took a mineralogy class from him, his very first year of teaching, and can personally attest to his awesome character and intellect). I reproduce them here in case his blog disappears, and because they are kind of hard to find on his blog so I like to have them all on one page thats easy for me to wade through and outline. See his blog, called ‘Climate Asylum’ at this link.
[add a personal note, add ward radio video and disclaimer. Add my comment from it.]
The Mass of the Earth is a MASSIVE PROBLEM for the Universal Model
This is part of a series of articles responding to the claims made in Dean Sessions’ Universal Model. Click the link to see the introduction to the series.
UM Claim: The Universal Model claims that instead of a core made mostly of iron, the Earth has a core made of ice. But if so, that would mean the Earth has a much different total mass than scientists believe, and all the standard measurements of Isaac Newton’s Universal Gravitational Constant (G), starting with Henry Cavendish’s torsion balance experiment in 1798, must have been wildly inaccurate.
One of the indirect evidences used in determining the Earth’s core composition is density. From where did the inferred average density of 5.52 g/cm^3 come? The answer comes from one experiment described in subchapter 18.4 [not yet published], the Cavendish Experiment. In 1798, Henry Cavendish constructed an apparatus similar to a pendulum but designed to measure the faint gravitational attraction between two large lead balls and two small lead balls. The two sets of balls suspended independently allowed Cavendish to obtain accurate measurements of the twisting suspension wire as the balls oscillated back and forth past each other. The whole process of this experiment, fascinating as it is, gets duplicated and retested by others in physics labs today. However, there is one major flaw in the experiment leading to the Cavendish Error. Unlike the Earth, the lead balls are not in outer space, and thus, the balls, restricted by the air and influenced by the Earth’s gravity rendered incorrect data. Their attraction should have been measured in a vacuum, in low gravity. Air, a denser medium than the vacuum of space, along with the attractive gravitational force of the Earth, slowed the balls’ oscillation rate. Cavendish neglected to account for the reduced oscillation in the original experiment, leading to an incorrect gravitational constant and errors in the Earth’s density estimates.
As we will learn in subchapter 18.4, the New Mass of the Earth, the Earth’s density, recalculated to approximately 2.3 g/cm^3 using the physics of gravitational attraction and the new geological discoveries outlined in this and other chapters, renders a truer density of the Earth that aligns with empirical observations. We next examine the geological nature of the Earth’s density. (Universal Model, Vol. 1, p. 107)
Issue: Way back in 1798, Cavendish’s careful experiments implied a value of G = 6.754×10−11 m^3 kg^−1 s^−2, which is within about 1% of the accepted value today. And guess what? Dean Sessions wasn’t the first one to wonder whether air resistance affects these measurements. So not only have Cavendish-type experiments been done many times in a vacuum–they have also been done in both a vacuum AND during freefall to negate the effects of gravity! Many, many experiments have yielded about the same value for G, whether or not such corrections are made.
There probably have been experiments done that yielded wildly different values of G, but as Dean Sessions pointed out, rigorous experiments are hard to do, and lots of things can go wrong! If things could go wrong with the Cavendish experiment, why couldn’t they have gone wrong with whatever experiment Sessions set up in his garage? Replication of important experimental results is a hallmark of science, and the vast, vast majority of G measurements have been very close to one another.
When this point was made on the UM internet forum, the UM team eventually responded with this stunning admission.
The “appreciable effect on the pendulum” stated by Carter in regards to UM experimentation was a faulty test of a continuing experiment that will not be finished until the release of the Universal System – Volume III of the Universal Model.
That’s right. After the publication of Volume 1, the UM team found out that their garage experiment was faulty, but they seem quite confident that by the time they roll out Volume 3, they will get the result they need to save their model.
To be blunt, if the accepted value of G is even remotely accurate, there is no way the UM “hydroplanet” model can be right, or even in the ballpark.
One portion of the “discoveries” part of the Universal Model website states, “the concept that Earth is a Hydroplanet instead of a magmaplanet is one of the key components of the UM.” It also includes a fancy illustration (below) depicting what that means—you’ll notice that the Earth is depicted with a liquid water outer core and solid ice inner core:
On the other hand, the scientific consensus is that the outer and inner cores of the Earth are mostly liquid and solid iron—something more like this:
Iron is much denser than any known phase of H2O, so Sessions’ “hydroplanet” belief requires that the overall density and mass of the Earth be considerably reduced in order to fit his model. Without any empirical or mathematical basis, he confidently asserts that the Earth’s new mass is roughly 1/3 the actual mass that modern physics dictates.
A few weeks ago, I had the opportunity to speak over the phone with Jarom Sessions (Dean’s son) about this issue, and he hung up on me as soon as I started into the particulars about the Earth’s mass. Russ Barlow (one of Sessions’ closest UM associates) called me later that evening, and he also could not offer any viable explanation for orbiting satellites under the current UM model except to repeat that Volume III of the Universal Model would somehow explain the discrepancy. I have learned that the repeated answer you will get from any die-hard UMer is this: “It will all be cleared up in Volume III.” If you don’t believe me, call them up and ask.
But…they haven’t released Volume III yet, so we will have to take it on faith that they will be able to rework modern physics to fit their claim (I guess starting with conclusions and working backwards is the new science). However, my bet is that Sessions cannot provide the mathematics necessary to prove his biased, ill-conceived conclusions.
Actually, I believe that Dean Sessions will, at some point in his life, come to the realization that the Earth’s mass has already been correctly described with modern physics. It’s pretty hard to argue against the simple reality that each new satellite we put into orbit stays there as a testament to the fact that we already know, reliably well, the Earth’s actual mass. They wouldn’t be in that orbital sweet spot if this weren’t true.
When Sessions and his followers finally do admit the Earth’s mass is already correct, I am confident that their next step will be to make something akin to this argument: The mantle must be much denser than is generally thought. That’s the only way to maintain our “hydroplanet” model and acknowledge that the Earth’s mass is already correct because…THERE MUST BE A WATER CORE!
I am confident this will be their eventual reaction because another (former?) UMer that I spoke with acknowledged to me that Sessions was wrong about the Earth’s mass and brought this same hypothesis up to me instead.
But I want to preemptively stop that line of reasoning before more UMers jump on that ill-judged train. The problem is that any “hydroplanet” model (I think of it as the “core(s)-light” model for obvious reasons) completely ignores the Earth’s moment of inertia factor, a useful clue to what the interior structure of any spinning sphere is.
In general, moment of inertia is just a measure of how hard it is to get something rotating. More precisely, according to merriam-webster, it can be defined as “a measure of the resistance of a body to angular acceleration about a given axis that is equal to the sum of the products of each element of mass in the body and the square of the element’s distance from the axis.” In mathematical terms, for a rigid sphere with a uniform density, then I=0.4mr^2 (where I is the moment of inertia, m is the mass, and r is the radius).
Moment of inertia demonstration with objects of same mass. Note that the red sphere is hollow.
Moment of inertia factor is related to moment of inertia and is used to describe the radial density distribution of all major planetary bodies in our solar system based on their spin precession, gravity quantities, mass, and radius. This PowerPoint by Francis Nimmo gives a detailed explanation of what moment of inertia factor is and how it’s calculated.
Generally put, if a celestial sphere has a moment of inertia factor less than 0.4, then its mass must be distributed more towards its core, and it will be denser at its core. If it has a moment of inertia factor greater than 0.4, then its mass must be distributed more towards its outer layers, and it will be denser toward its surface.
No planetary bodies (not even the moon) in our solar system have a moment of inertia factor greater than 0.4, meaning they are all denser towards their centers than they are towards their exteriors.
In fact, moment of inertia factor offers scientists a large clue about the interior makeup of nearly any nearby planetary body. Based on moment of inertia factors, we know that all major planetary bodies in our solar system have differentiated to some level, meaning that denser materials have sunk to their centers.
In short, the Earth’s inner and outer cores, which extend nearly halfway from its center, cannot be less dense than the Earth’s mantle. If this were true, then the Earth’s moment of inertia factor would be much higher. So, there is no core(s)-light model for the Earth, or really for any major planetary body in our solar system. The Sun and all the planets in our solar system are densest at their cores.
In Universal Model vol. 1, ch. 5, “The Magma Pseudotheory,” Dean Sessions is on a mission to disprove the existence of magma. (You can’t have a “hydroplanet” with a core of ice if it gets hotter toward the center.) To convince himself he has accomplished this, he performs his usual routine of misstating the actual scientific theory, disproving the fake theory he just made up, and then announcing that it all fits perfectly with the UM. No, it doesn’t. Oh, and he keeps forgetting about convection.
“Magma,” in geological parlance, means molten rock that exists below the Earth’s surface, whereas “lava” is the same thing after it is extruded out of a volcano. Dean Sessions knows about volcanoes, and he knows that lava must come from under the ground. So magma exists, right? Well, okay, but Sessions wants to make it clear that he doesn’t think molten rock forms below the crust of the Earth, so he renames “magma” in the crust as “intrusive lava”. Regular old “lava” becomes “extrusive lava.” The term “magma” he reserves for the “only… theoretical molten rock that geologists think is generated in the layers below the crust” (UM, vol. 1, p. 70).
Magma is a “pseudotheory,” according to Sessions, because pseudotheories are false theories taught as fact. It’s just a theory because we can’t drill holes down into the mantle and core of the Earth to directly examine what’s there. Instead, we just have to “infer” what’s there by indirect means. (You know, like we have to “infer” the existence of oxygen molecules by indirect means because we can’t shrink ourselves down small enough to look at them, and even if we could, our eyes wouldn’t work unless they were tuned to X-ray wavelengths, and so on.)
All Sessions has to do to show that deep magma is taught as a fact is to quote one geologist saying the opposite. “Magmas properly belong to the realm of theoretical petrology…. [T]hey cannot be examined in the field, collected, studied or directly experimented with” (UM, vol. 1, p. 71). Oh, wait! That wasn’t the part that proves Sessions’ point! It’s two pages later in the quoted text, where the geologist says, “There is, however, irrefutable direct evidence that materials with the physical properties of magma exist within the Earth.” See? How can there be direct evidence for magma if you can’t directly experiment with it? Oh, wait! Maybe the geologist was referring to the fact that we can detect substances that have the mechanical properties of molten rock by mapping how seismic waves travel through them. Or maybe he was referring to the fact that we can sometimes drill right down into an underground magma chamber, and find it there… you know… underground. I can hear the UM Team objecting that Dean Sessions knows quite well, thankyouverymuch, that molten rock exists in the crust (“intrusive lava”), but he was talking about “magma”–hypothetical molten rock below the crust. Of course, if the quoted geologist was using the standard geological definition of magma as “underground molten rock,” he really wasn’t contradicting himself. It’s only a problem if he was using the definition Dean Sessions made up.
Well, whatever. The MAIN point is that Dean Sessions can also quote a bunch of other geologists (pp. 70-71) carefully specifying that they don’t know everything about what’s in the deep Earth, which just goes to show that they don’t know anything, right?
But those pesky geologists persist in believing that they do know some things about the Earth’s deep interior, such as that it must be really hot down there. He quotes one geophysicist, “The interior of the Earth is clearly hotter than its surface, as shown by volcanoes and the temperatures within mine shafts” (p. 74). In other words, we know it must be hot down there because hot stuff comes shooting out the surface from time to time, and because when we dig holes it gets hotter as we go deeper.
Sessions claims he can prove the geologists wrong by doing what the scientists should have been doing all along–making sure scientific theories conform to actual observations, instead of just assuming their theories are true. Sessions points out, for instance, that the way heat escapes from the Earth is exactly the opposite of what the “Magma Pseudotheory” predicts, but it does follow what should be the case if the heat to melt rock is generated in the crust through frictional heating along faults, and kept going by tidal forces.
In reality, Dean Sessions just doesn’t understand what he’s talking about, and he is unable to recognize it when data do not conform to his ideas.
He begins on p. 92 by showing us a U.S. Geological Survey map of the thickness of the Earth’s crust, which clearly shows that the crust is much thicker on the continents than the ocean floor. He then uses the USGS map to make his own map of what the “Magma Pseudotheory” should predict, by assuming the heat flow through the thicker parts of the crust is less than through the thinner parts.
In the Magma Pseudotheory, heat coming from deep inside the Earth transfers to the surface through convection currents from the inner core toward the mantle and ultimately to the crust. It is then conducted to the surface, through the Crust. The flow of heat should be easily predicted and follow known patterns of heat transfer if the Earth’s heat is actually coming from magma. (p. 91)
Here’s how he explains the heat transfer theory he’s using.
The physics of heat flow tell us that heat travels or flows across a gradient from hot to cold and that the flow will be greater when the gradient is steeper. In other words, more heat flows from hot toward cold than flows from hot toward warm. The bottom of the ocean, at around 2 °C(35 °F) is much cooler than the surface of the continents, which averages approximately 14 °C (57 °F). Because of this, we should expect heat flow to be greater through the oceanic crust than through continental crust. Note that we are not referring to why the surface of the Earth is warmer than the bottom of the ocean-that is primarily due to solar heating. We are considering the flow of heat through the crust. (p. 92)
However, Sessions also produces (p. 92) another USGS Map showing actual measured heat flows around the globe (see below), and announces that they are totally different.
The greatest concentration[s] of heat… land on plate boundaries where gravitational frictional heating is highest…. This demonstrates unequivocally that the Earth’s heat flow through the crust cannot originate from a theoretical magma heat source beneath the crust, confirming the Frictional Heat Law and the Gravitational Friction Law. (p. 92)
Well, actually… if you look at the “actual heat flow” map, it’s clear that the highest flows are not at all plate boundaries. (Many plate boundaries appear to have quite low heat flows.) Rather they are at mid-ocean ridges, which are only one kind of plate boundary. These plate boundaries are where real plate tectonic theory (as opposed to the Magma Pseudotheory, whatever that is) says hot, plastic, solid material (NOT MAGMA) wells up from below in convection currents, pulling apart the overlying lithospheric plates. When the overlying lithosphere cracks apart like that, it lowers the pressure on the rocks below in the mantle, lowering their melting temperatures, so that some minerals melt and the magma creeps up through the cracks. So in reality, divergent plate boundaries are EXACTLY where conventional plate tectonic theory implies the greatest heat flow should be, because of convective heat transfer.
When Sessions used his simple conversion of crustal thickness to expected heat flow, he had to implicitly assume that the material below the crust has a uniform temperature all around the globe, and that no hot material is transported up through the crust. In other words, he must have forgotten that he just said the hot material was supposed to be transported around the interior in convection currents. In convection currents, hot material flows upward in certain places because it is less dense than the overlying cooler stuff. When it reaches the top it spreads out to the sides and cools, while the cooler stuff at the top sinks down to the bottom and heats up. This goes on over and over, as illustrated in this animation.
Geophysicists have not been able to explain why heat flow through the thin oceanic crust is less than the heat flow through the thick continental crust. The thicker and more insulated continental crust areas should have a significantly lower amount of heat flow whereas the thicker continental crust should theoretically be cooler than oceanic crust because of the distance from the heat source as predicted within magma theory. (p. 92)
Wait… look at that figure again. On average, at least, the ocean floors do show higher heat flow than the continents, and in fact geophysicists estimate that the average heat flow from the continental crust is 65 mW/m^2, whereas the average heat flow from oceanic crust is 101 mW/m^2. Why is Sessions now saying that there is less heat flow through the oceanic crust?
Sessions explains on p. 93 that since the continental crust is about six times as thick as the oceanic crust, then the heat flow through the oceanic crust should be six times higher. Conductive heat transfer is proportional to the thermal gradient (how much the temperature changes with depth) and the thermal conductivity of the material (how efficiently the material transmits heat by conduction), so assuming that the thermal conductivities of the oceanic and continental crust aren’t that different, the thermal gradient in the ocean crust should be steeper than that in the continental crust. Next Sessions produces a quotation from an old Scientific American article saying that the thermal gradient in the ocean crust is about 15 °C/km depth, whereas that of the continental crust is about 25 °C/km, which is seemingly the opposite of what we would expect.
The answer to this conundrum is, once again, that Dean Sessions forgot about convection.
The oceanic crust is under the ocean, after all, so lots of water gets down in the rocks and is heated up, causing convective flow. (NOTE: Even Sessions agrees that it gets hotter with depth within the crust, so this should not be controversial.) This hydrothermal flow actually increases the heat flow out of the interior, but simultaneously decreases the thermal gradient of the upper oceanic crust. In a convection current, hot stuff does flow toward the cooler areas, but cool stuff also flows toward the hotter areas, so the relationship between the thermal gradient and the heat flow is more complicated than with heat conduction.
Heat flow estimates like those plotted in the figure above are not measured directly. They are measured indirectly via thermal gradients. If essentially only heat conduction is going on (like in most of the continental crust), then you can just measure the thermal gradient in boreholes, estimate the thermal conductivity of the rocks, and back out the heat flow. If you know hydrothermal convection is going on, then you have to make corrections for that. And geophysicists do.
So now it all makes sense through the lens of standard plate tectonic theory, even if we don’t have all the details worked out. There is greater heat flow through the oceanic crust than the continental crust because ocean crust is thinner, because hot material is welling up at mid-ocean ridges, AND because of hydrothermal circulation under the ocean floor. The thermal gradient in oceanic crust is lower than that in continental crust because hydrothermal circulation also reduces this gradient, while increasing heat flow.
Does it make sense within the UM? Not really. The UM predicts that you should have high heat flow at all kinds of plate boundaries, because the heat is generated by earthquakes. So why don’t we see excess heat flow in areas where tectonic plates are causing continental lithosphere to collide (like in the Himalayas)? There are lots of earthquakes there, after all.
In fact, Sessions is beset by the same problems as regular scientists. That is, we can’t drill all the way to the center of the Earth to see what’s there. So why should we believe that the Earth is cold in the center (as in the UM), when from what we CAN see it gets hotter and hotter toward the center?
Get ready for it…
Sessions says (p. 94) that the Earth appears to heat up too rapidly with depth. He quotes a geophysicist from the 1930’s saying that “If the gradient determined [near the surface] should continue downward unchanged, the temperature at the center would exceed 350,000° F” (p. 94). Sessions then goes on:
No one thinks the center of Earth is thousands of times hotter than the surface of the Sun. How can heat be so high in the crust and still be thousands of kilometers from the source of heat, residing at or near the core? This too-hot-too-fast problem just does not follow the physics of heat flow. We would likely boil away if the Earth’s geotherm followed the assumed gradient of the magma model pseudotheory. A temperature of 350,000″F at the core just does not work for any theory! (pp. 94-95)
This objection would be correct… if convection were not going on in the mantle. That’s right. He forgot about convection again. Remember how you can actually get more heat flow through convection, with a lower thermal gradient, than when there is only thermal conduction? Once again, Sessions has disproved a prediction the standard theory does not actually make. Here is what the temperature profile of the Earth is supposed to look like according to the standard theory. Note how the gradient is lower in places like the atmosphere, mantle, and outer core, where lots of convection is supposed to be going on.
There’s really nothing left of the UM argument. Oh, maybe some geophysicists didn’t get the thermal gradient they were expecting in the odd borehole somewhere, or whatever, but that doesn’t cancel out the thousands upon thousands of other measurements that show steadily increasing temperature with depth. Sessions can complain all he wants about how geologists don’t know everything about the deep interior of the Earth (a fact geologists readily admit), but 1) he doesn’t either, and 2) none of the evidence that does exist supports his ideas.
Dean Sessions, author of the Universal Model, apparently thinks scientists are pretty stupid. The constant refrain in the UM is that scientists know there is all sorts of evidence that conflicts with their theories, but they just can’t imagine that their theories could possibly be wrong! My interpretation, however, is that Mr. Sessions is unable to understand how any particular observation conflicts with scientific theories, because he doesn’t understand the theories (and sometimes he doesn’t even understand the observations). The result is a sloppy string of out-of-context quotations and bizarre reasoning that brilliantly disproves all sorts of non-existent theories.
One case in point is his treatment of Plate Tectonics, the current unifying theory of geology. First, I will explain a few basics of the ACTUAL theory.
The ACTUAL Theory
In the theory of Plate Tectonics, the “plates” (rigid slabs of rock several km thick on the surface of the Earth) move around largely because of convection currents in the mantle (the layer below the crust).
Convection is the movement of heat energy with the material it inhabits. If you turn on the hot water faucet in your bathtub, for instance, heat energy in your water heater travels through the plumbing and into your tub because it travels with the flowing water.
Convection currents, or convection cells, move heat energy with some material in a more cyclical way. Think of a pot of water on a stove, where the heat is actually coming from the bottom. The water on the bottom heats up first, making it expand a little. Since it is less dense than the overlying cooler water, the warmer water floats upward and the cooler water sinks downward. Now the water on top is cooling off by releasing heat into the air, and the water on the bottom is heating up. Pretty soon the water on the bottom becomes warmer than that on the top, and they trade places again. This sets up a continuous cyclical motion.
To get convection currents, you need a source of heat on the bottom, and a way to release the heat at the top. You also need the convecting material to be some kind of fluid. Usually, when we think of fluids, we think of liquids and gases, neither of which hold their shapes when they are not held in a container. Solids are usually not considered fluids, but there are important cases where a material seems to behave like a cross between a solid and a liquid. Think of Play-Dough, for instance. It will keep its shape, but if you push on it with a finger, the shape is deformed. Instead of bouncing back to its original shape or breaking, like most things we think of as solids would, it keeps its new shape. If a solid behaves like this (i.e., it can squish around instead of cracking) then it can be moved around in slow-moving convection currents. Rock that is heated and pressurized (but not melted into a liquid) can behave this way.
Once upon a time, it was thought that the solid crust was floating on a big ocean of magma, but since the early 20th century it has been clear that most of the Earth is solid, the only liquid layer being the outer core. (We can tell because a certain type of seismic wave can only travel through solids.) So if the part of the mantle underneath the plates is essentially solid, it must be softened by the heat and pressure so it can be squished around in convection currents. These currents must move quite slowly, because plates only move laterally by a few centimeters per year.
Get it? The plates are “floating” on top of the softened, but still solid rock below, much like you “float”, or partially sink into, your bed when you lie down on it. (The bed is solid, but squishy.) There is no ocean of magma (melted or molten rock) underneath.
Oh, So He Does Understand!
At some points in the UM, it seems like Sessions does understand that the “magma ocean” theory is long gone.
Ideas change. Magma was once a new idea, and as it developed, geologists imagined a great ocean of magma deep inside the Earth: an all-encompassing body that supplied the heat and lava to all volcanoes, but that idea fell out of favor during the early 1900s. Quoting from a 1911 encyclopedia:
“The old idea of a universal magma, or continuous pyrosphere, has been generally abandoned….” (UM, Vol. 1, p. 76)
See? Right there in his book, Sessions tells us that it has been out of favor for over 100 years!
On the same page, it also seems clear that Sessions understands that the seismic wave evidence shows that only the outer core is liquid, even if he disagrees with scientists about what that liquid is.
Seismic waves do establish that a large portion of the interior of the Earth is liquid but it does not establish what that liquid is. A simple question one could ask is magma the only liquid found in Nature? The answer–no.
The geologists themselves state in the foregoing statement that they have only been able to “guess” what Liquid occupies the Earth’s underworld. Their research “implies a molten core” but they do not know this. They do know that there is a shadow zone caused by the liquid in the outer core of the Earth as illustrated in Fig 5.2.2. The shadow zone appears repeatedly, when earthquakes occur.
From the different magnitudes and arrival times of the different waves, researchers in the early twentieth century were able to develop a rough picture of the interior of the Earth. As technology improves, the picture is ever clearer, and one of the most convincing evidences that magma does not exist comes from an understanding about these seismic waves. (UM, Vol. 1, p. 76)
No… He Doesn’t Understand
But just a couple pages later, Sessions makes the following claim.
The plate tectonics theory proposes crustal movement based on convective magma, one facet of the magmaplanet model. (UM, Vol. 1, p. 78)
In another chapter, he emphasizes once again that he really does believe geologists think the plates are riding around on an ocean of magma. (He gets his information this time from… and I’m not kidding about this… a website called geography4kids.com.
It is important to note that modern geology already has empirical evidence establishing that the Earth’s Continents are floating. In fact, children are taught in grade school about floating plates, along with other not-so-proven concepts. Here is the website geography4kids.com, which explains how the Earth’s continental plates float:
“THEY REALLY FLOAT?”
“These plates make up the top layer of the Earth called the lithosphere. Directly under that layer is the asthenosphere. It’s a flowing area of molten rock. There is constant heat and radiation given off from the center of the Earth. That energy is what constantly heats the rocks and melts them. The tectonic plates are floating on top of the molten rock and moving around the planet.”
We previously discussed Earth’s continental plates and their observable movement of several centimeters per year (see Fig 15.13.1), but we have taken the position that there is no magma, and therefore, no molten rock upon which the plates ride, so we naturally have to ask; what are the plates floating on? This is a truly fundamental question. (UM, Vol. 1, p. 231)
Clearly, this is wrong, but why would Sessions cite some random geography (not even geology!) website for kids in the first place? He cites a number of real geology textbooks throughout the UM, after all. For example, Sessions refers several times to a book by O.M. Phillips, The Heart of the Earth, which was published in 1968, when the theory of Plate Tectonics was brand-spanking new. Here’s what Phillips said about the issue.
Before we can ascribe any significance to this suggestion [that mantle convection drives plate motion], though, it is necessary to be convinced that movements of this kind in the mantle are qualitatively or descriptively plausible and do not do violence to the observations already established.
The idea poses an immediate dilemma. Convection is a type of motion that can occur only in a fluid. yet the mantle is capable of transmitting S waves, and these cannot travel through a fluid. Furthermore, deep earthquakes occur frequently at depths between 80 and 300 km, sometimes as deep as 600 or 700 km, and sudden fracture or slipping does not occur in a fluid. These are serious objections; are they crippling? The answer, I believe, is no….
The simple classification of materials as solids, liquids and gases is convenient, but not particularly precise. Some, like water at ordinary temperatures, are unambiguously liquid. Others, like mayonnaise or the interior of a half-cooked cake are neither clearly solid nor clearly liquid…. This general type of behavior, in which the simple classification fails, is in fact very common; it is the rule rather than the exception, especially at the high temperatures that we expect to find in the earth’s mantle. Most metals and plastics certainly behave this way. They can be bent and squeezed into shape; they can be made to flow. (O.M. Phillips, The Heart of the Earth. Freeman, Cooper & Company, San Francisco, 1968, pp. 167-168)
Are you starting to get the picture? When researching for his magnum opus, Sessions seems to have combed through hundreds of books, articles, and websites, hand-picking quotations he thought he could fit into his narrative that scientists are dogmatic and confused, and ignoring anything that might have helped him understand what scientists actually think.
There are no “magma oceans” below the crust, and no geologists I know of have thought this for a very long time. And yet, Sessions puts quite a bit of effort into debunking this idea. Why?
In the Universal Model, Vol. 1, Dean Sessions says that if current scientific theories about the interior of the Earth (i.e., that it’s hotter down there) are correct, then we should see highly radioactive lava erupting from volcanoes. However, that’s beyond wrong–it’s ludicrous. Let me explain.
As noted in the UM, the standard theory is that the interior of the Earth was originally hot because of heat generated when the planet formed from the solar nebula (a cloud of space debris coalescing by gravity) around 4.5 billion years ago. Things smashing together, friction creating heat–you get the idea. The problem is that geologists figured out quite a while ago that if this “residual heat” were the only source, then the Earth should have completely cooled off a long time ago. An apparent solution was found when scientists discovered radioactivity. Certain elements (most notably uranium, thorium, and potassium) include isotopes (atoms of that element with different numbers of neutrons in their nuclei) whose nuclei can decay over time, creating atoms of different elements, releasing fractured nuclei and/or subatomic particles, and releasing heat. So here’s the logic.
“Hey, we need another source of heat to explain why the Earth’s interior is still hot!”
“Oh, look! We found out that some elements in the Earth are radioactive, and they produce heat! Maybe that’s it!”
Not too complicated, right? But Dean Sessions wants the core of the Earth to be a giant ice ball, so he tries to dismiss the idea that radioactivity could provide an explanation.
However, naturally occurring radioactive rocks are weak and generate very little heat. The most abundant, naturally occurring radioactive rock is uranium, which is found only near the surface of the Earth. Moreover, there are no known radioactive lava flows. (p. 97)
Let’s take that apart.
First, ALL rocks are radioactive. ALL OF THEM. All it takes to make a radioactive rock is a single radioactive atom, and with modern mass spectrometers, we can measure small amounts of radioactive atoms. And if a little heat is generated by every single radioactive decay event that occurs, then that heat can add up to quite a lot throughout the entire Earth.
Second, uranium is an element, not a “rock”. (Seriously, it’s like Sessions is trying to give rage aneurysms to geochemists.)
Third, it’s true that the most abundant radioactive isotopes tend to concentrate most in the crust of the Earth, but that really doesn’t matter. Suppose you have a sphere with heat sources spread throughout, but especially near the surface. Heat energy is generated, and spreads out. Some of it flows toward the surface and is radiated out into space, and some of it flows toward the center, because heat tends to flow, on average, in the direction of colder temperatures. When the heat energy gets to the center, where does it go? The only way to flow is toward the surface, but if the temperature is still warmer on the outside of the sphere, the net heat flow will still be toward the center. Therefore, the center will keep heating up until it is hotter than the outside of the sphere and heat can flow back the other way.
(Think about this, UMers. If the Earth is actually colder in the center, then there must be some kind of black hole sucking heat out of there.)
Fourth, geologists don’t think magma is generated in places where it is way hotter than other parts of the interior. Rather, magma is mostly generated in places where the local pressure, temperature, and composition favor melting. For example, in subduction zones, waterlogged oceanic crust gets shoved down into the mantle. Since water is KNOWN to lower the melting temperatures of many minerals (yes, this has been experimentally verified), the mantle rocks above the subducted crust will be more likely to melt when exposed to more water, and that’s how geologists explain the fact that lots of volcanoes occur above subduction zones. When the crust (lithosphere, actually) cracks open at a divergent plate boundary (mid-ocean ridges, mainly) that drops the pressure on the mantle rocks just below the crack. Since lowering the pressure is KNOWN to lower the melting temperatures of rocks, that’s how geologists explain the fact that there are lots of volcanoes at mid-ocean ridges.
So basically, the idea that lava should be more radioactive than other Earth materials if geologists are right about the interior of the Earth is nonsensical.
https://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.png00MormonBoxhttps://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.pngMormonBox2024-12-15 09:50:052024-12-15 09:56:26Issues with the Session’s Universal Model
27 And it came to pass that the king [of the Lamanites] sent a proclamation throughout all the land [of Nephi–see verse 1], amongst all his people who were in all his land, who were in all the regions round about,
LAND OF NEPHI BORDERED BY SEA ON BOTH SIDES -which [land of Nephi] was bordering even to the sea, on the east and on the west, [east sea & west sea], -and [his land of Nephi] which was divided from the land of Zarahemla by a narrow strip of wilderness,
NARROW STRIP OF WILDERNESS RUNS FROM EAST SEA TO WEST SEA -which [narrow strip of wilderness] ran from the sea east even to the sea west, and round about on the borders of the seashore [of both seas?], -and [it ‘ran from’] the borders of the [afore mentioned narrow strip of] wilderness which was on the north [of the land of Nephi] by the land of Zarahemla, through the borders of Manti, by the head of the river Sidon, [which river or possibly wilderness was] running from the east towards the west —and thus were the Lamanites and the Nephites divided.
LAMANITES LIVED ON SEASHORE WEST OF NEPHI & ZARAHEMLA 28 Now, the more idle part of the Lamanites lived in the wilderness, and dwelt in tents; and they were spread through the wilderness on the west, in the land of Nephi; yea, -and also on the west of the land of Zarahemla, in the borders by the [west] seashore [ie. which was west of Zarahemla!], -and on the west in the land of Nephi, in the place of [or seashore by] their fathers’ first inheritance, and thus bordering along by the [west] seashore [ie. its west of Zarahemla AND Nephi!].
LAMANITES LIVED ON SEASHORE EAST OF NEPHI & ZARAHEMLA 29 And also there were many Lamanites on the east [of Zarahemla & Nephi] by the [east] seashore, whither the Nephites had driven them. -And thus the Nephites were nearly surrounded by the Lamanites; -nevertheless the Nephites had taken possession of all the northern parts of the land [southward] -bordering on the wilderness, at the head of the river Sidon, -[having possession] from the east to the west, round about on the wilderness side; on the north [of Nephi & Zarahemla], even until they came to the land which they called Bountiful.
BOUNTIFUL IS NORTH AND DESOLATION IS ‘SO FAR NORTH’ 30 And it [Bountiful] bordered upon the land which they called Desolation, -it [Desolation] being so far northward that it came into the land which had been peopled and been destroyed [by Jaredites], of whose bones we have spoken, -which [Land of Desolation] was discovered by the [Mulekite] people of Zarahemla, it [Desolation] being the place of their [Mulekite] first landing.
31 And they [the Mulekites] came from there [Desolation] up into the south wilderness [likely south of the land of Nephi or perhaps only south of Zarahemla or Desolation]. -Thus the land on the northward [of Bountiful &/or ‘small neck’] was called Desolation, -and the land on the southward [of Desolation &/or ‘small neck’] was called Bountiful, -it [the afore mentioned south wilderness or Bountiful] being the wilderness which is filled with all manner of wild animals of every kind, a part of which had come from the land northward for food [through a migration corridor].
32 And now, it was only the distance of a day and a half’s journey [about 15-30 miles] for a Nephite, on the line Bountiful and the land Desolation, from the east [of the line or sea or land?] to the west sea; -and thus the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla were nearly surrounded by water, -there being a small neck of land between the [afore mentioned] land northward and the [afore mentioned] land southward.
33 And it came to pass that the Nephites had inhabited the land Bountiful, even from the east [of the line or sea or land?] unto the west sea, -and thus the Nephites in their wisdom, with their guards and their armies, had hemmed in the Lamanites on the south [on the line Bountiful?], -that thereby they should have no more possession on the north, that they might not overrun the land northward [which was the land of the Mulekite first landing].
34 Therefore the Lamanites could have no more possessions -only in the land of Nephi, and the wilderness round about. -Now this was wisdom in the Nephites—as the Lamanites were an enemy to them, they would not suffer their afflictions on every hand, and also that they [the Nephites/Mulekites] might have a country whither they might flee, according to their desires. (Alma 22:27–34)
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ZARAHEMLA IS IN THE HEART/CENTRAL PART OF THE LAND 18 And it came to pass that because of so much contention and so much difficulty in the government, that they had not kept sufficient guards in the land of Zarahemla; for they had supposed that the Lamanites durst not come into the heart of their lands to attack that great city Zarahemla… 27 But behold, the Lamanites… had come into the center of the land [of Zarahemla], and had taken the capital city which was the city of Zarahemla, and were marching through the most capital parts of the land, (Hel 1:18,27)
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MORONI’S NEW BORDER
And the land of Nephi did run in a straight course from the east sea to the west.
9 And it came to pass that when Moroni had driven all the Lamanites out of the east wilderness, -which was north of the lands of [the Lamanites] own possessions, -he caused that the [Nephite] inhabitants who were in the land of Zarahemla and in the land round about should go forth into the east wilderness, even to the borders by the [east] seashore, and possess the land. 10 And [Moroni] also placed armies on the south [of the land Zarahemla], in the borders of [the Nephite] possessions, -and caused them to erect fortifications that [the Nephites] might secure… their people… 11 …fortifying the line between the Nephites and the Lamanites, between the land of Zarahemla and the land of Nephi, from the west sea, running by the head of the river Sidon— 13 …[to the] foundation of a city, and they called the name of the city Moroni; and it was by the east sea; -and it was on the south by the line of the possessions of the Lamanites. 14 And they also began a foundation for a city between the city of Moroni and the city of Aaron, joining the borders of Aaron and Moroni; -and they called the name of the city, or the land, Nephihah. 15 And they also began in that same year to build many cities on the north, one in a particular manner which they called Lehi, -which was in the north by the borders of the seashore. (Alma 50:8–15)
EAST SEA GARRISON CITIES 26 And thus he [Amalickiah,] went on, taking possession of many cities, the city of Nephihah, and the city of Lehi, and the city of Morianton, and the city of Omner, and the city of Gid, and the city of Mulek, all of which were on the east borders by the [east] seashore. (Alma 51:26)
WEST SEA GARRISON CITIES 8 And now it came to pass that the armies of the Lamanites, on the west sea, south, while in the absence of Moroni on account of some intrigue amongst the Nephites, which caused dissensions amongst them, had gained some ground over the Nephites, yea, insomuch that they had obtained possession of a number of their cities in that part of the land. 22 And now it came to pass that Helaman did march at the head of his two thousand stripling soldiers, to the support of the people in the borders of the land on the south by the west sea. (Alma 53:8,22)
13 And now these are the cities of which the Lamanites have obtained possession by the shedding of the blood of so many of our valiant men: 14 The land of Manti, or the city of Manti, and the city of Zeezrom, and the city of Cumeni, and the city of Antiparah.15 And these are the cities which they possessed when I arrived at the city of Judea… 31 And we were to march near the city of Antiparah, as if we were going to the city beyond, in the borders by the [west] seashore. (Alma 56:13–14)
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PROXIMITY OF MANTI & NEPHIHAH 5 And it came to pass that while Moroni was thus making preparations to go against the Lamanites to battle, behold, the people of Nephihah, who were gathered together from the city of Moroni and the city of Lehi and the city of Morianton, were attacked by the Lamanites. 6 Yea, even those who had been compelled to flee from the land of Manti, and from the land round about, had come over and joined the Lamanites in this part of the land. 7 And thus being exceedingly numerous, yea, and receiving strength from day to day, by the command of Ammoron they came forth against the people of Nephihah, and they did begin to slay them with an exceedingly great slaughter. (Alma 59:5–7)
25Neither durst they march down against the city of Zarahemla; neither durst they cross the head of Sidon, over to the city of Nephihah. (Alma 56:25)
22 Behold, now it came to pass that they durst not come against the Nephites in the borders of Jershon; therefore they departed out of the land of Antionum into the wilderness, and took their journey round about in the wilderness, away by the head of the river Sidon, that they might come into the land of Manti and take possession of the land; for they did not suppose that the armies of Moroni would know whither they had gone. (Alma 43:22)
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PROXIMITY OF AMMONIHAH, MELEK AND AARON 3 And it came to pass in the commencement of the tenth year of the reign of the judges over the people of Nephi, that Alma departed from thence and took his journey over into the land of Melek, on the west of the river Sidon, on the west by the borders of the wilderness. 4 And he began to teach the people in the land of Melek… 6 So that when he had finished his work at Melek he departed thence, and traveled three days’ journey [~30-45 miles] on the north of the land of Melek; and he came to a city which was called Ammonihah…13 Now… he departed thence and took his journey towards the city which was called Aaron. (Alma 8:3–13)
NEPHIHAH IS BETWEEN MORONI AND AARON 13 And it came to pass that the Nephites began the foundation of a city, and they called the name of the city Moroni; and it was by the east sea; and it was on the south by the line of the possessions of the Lamanites. 14 And they also began a foundation for a city between the city of Moroni and the city of Aaron, joining the borders of Aaron and Moroni; and they called the name of the city, or the land, Nephihah. (Alma 50:13–14)
AMMONIHAH IS THE WEAKEST BORDER & EASY PRAY (BEFORE NEW BORDER IS BUILT) SO PROBABLY FAR AWAY FROM ZARAHEMLA 3 Behold, I said that the city of Ammonihah had been rebuilt… and because the Lamanites had destroyed it once… they supposed that it would again become an easy prey for them. … and Moroni… had supposed that they would be frightened at the city Ammonihah; and as the city of Noah had hitherto been the weakest part of the land… (Alma 49:3,15)
https://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.png00MormonBoxhttps://gatheredin.one/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/newest-logo-all-together-christus.pngMormonBox2024-10-16 20:02:382024-10-29 11:26:25A Detailed Breakdown of Alma 22 & Other important Internal Geography Scriptures in the Book of Mormon