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Amazing. I also have had the experience of this search (Other religions, Other channeled works, History, Church History etc) and have come to these conclusions. Very refreshing. Is there a community organized to teach this? Should there be? It is my opinion that if there were many pot luck dinners would ensue lol. Thanks for this article.
I really appreciate what you guys are doing. I feel like you are truly seeking with out of the box thinking.
One thing you are still sticking to narratives that the church has given us is Joseph Smith started polygamy. I feel like it’s your time to really explore this.
It’s time members awake to our awful situation but also the beauty of truth. There is much there to seek and find!
A good start is Rob Fotheringham’s videos (who is a faithful LDS and worked for the church) and see where the Lord takes you and teaches you. Good luck in your further journey.
Hey Lance, I saw you on Zion Media. I am LDS. Have you ever heard of Jason Breshears from archaix? He is the worlds leading chronologist, and there is definitely some overlap with your work, and his work. The man has published many books, and has a youtube channel. His work supports the Mormon worldview, though he is not Mormon. Please let me know even if its a quick yes or now. If no, check him out and let me know what you think. His work is impeccable.
nope. Hadn’t heard of him… I’ll check him out.
Lance,
Thank you so much for making your research available, I’ve only scratched the surface but love what you have done so much! Thank you for following the spirit and sharing.
I have been reading the book of JACHANAN BEN KATHRYN and find so much beauty and love in the text. Chapter 4 had my heart burning with its poetry, I can’t wait to read the rest.
Thank you so much!
Just as an add-on to my last comment on what I was talking. I am not suggesting that Hallucinogenics replace the atonement, prayer, repentance, etc for connecting with God, but I am convinced that the combination of Hallucinogenics and traditional tools of the gospel of Jesus Christ, as weird as this will sound to many, is an extremely powerful combination. Hallucinogenics are extremely good at helping one recognize how one’s choices are affecting their life, an existential step in daily repentance. The cathartic utility of them is incredible indeed. I learned during my Ayahuasca session, that I was being way too hard on those around me, especially family members. Mercy, was something I was very much lacking at that point in my life. A close friend of mine did Ayahuasca about the same time as me. He had just been divorced and basically dumped by his recent ex-wife, who had just used him to get through school towards her doctorate and get her American citizenship and go rid of him when he was no longer needed. This friend also has treatment resistant depression and has been known to be suicidal when he gets really low or off his meds. It was revealed to him towards the end of his Ayahuasca session, that people around him love him more than he ever realized. This gave him the strength to make it through the grueling first year after getting a messy divorce. Second, they are very good at helping one feel their true eternal nature, similar very major life events or sacred places like the temple. Third, they help one see the long view. On a personal not, I had a psilocybin session and I saw a vision that time had ended and this life had gone by in the blink of an eye. Needless to say, it gave me more urgency to make needed changes in my life after that. I think it is vital missing piece in the gospel.
Hey, Lance. I know that you have advocated that if people live the laws of an ordinance, that they get the same blessing of the ordinance even if they have not received the ordinance. I am not saying this to be smart at all, but my experience with Hallucinogenics has really got me thinking about your point about receiving the blessing of ordinances without getting the ordinances. Please hear me out as to why I am saying this. Last year, I decided to do Ayahuasca because I was curious to see if it could help me. In case you are not familiar, Ayahuasca is vine that grows in the rain forest of South America and has strong Hallucinogenic effects. I knew that other people have described the experience as a spiritual event, but I really did not know what kind of experience that would be like. I was very skeptical that I would just be going on a strung-out trip but had heard enough of the lives changed to give it a try anyway. I had read in my historical books of accounts of Native Shaman using herbs, that the majority of herbs have actually been found when Shaman were shown a dream or received divine guidance and this was often tied in with the use of a Hallucinogenic compound (Buhner, 2008). I was surprised that on my third day of taking Ayahuasca, I felt the Holy spirit as strong I have at any time in my life. I have felt the spirit very strong when I initially received my testimony of the truth of the restored gospel as if I was on fire as a 17 year old. I also felt the spirit strongly when I was set apart as a missionary, like I was floating on the ceiling, as well as when my oldest was born. These experiences are just to give some references to my previous spiritual experiences, but my Ayahuasca experience was just a powerful as these witnesses of the Holy Spirt. People from South America describe the effect of the Ayahuasca to be from the plant spirit, grandmother Ayahuasca. What I felt was a strong witness from the Holy Spirit at the end of the experience and I honestly believe that native tribes that practice Ayahuasca are mislabeling the Holy Spirit as grandmother Ayahuasca. What impressed was how Ayahuasca changed people that went into the ceremony, many recovering from years of drugs or years of abuse, etc. In the training prep, the coaches mentioned that people want to keep the spirit of Ayahuasca as long as possible afterwards and things like weed (Marijuana) and pornography, among other things, would interfere with feeling the ongoing effects of ayahuasca. Many people at the retreat I went to reported during the integration session each day that they were less argumentative with others. The book of Psychedelics and Psychotherapy by Tim Read, mentions from long experience of working with Ayahuasca in administering therapy to others, that what they call the spirit of Ayahuasca, is reported by many to be like a guiding parent (Read & Papaspyrou, 2021). Others have described the effects of the influence of Ayahuasca as an ongoing third-party present. Ayahuasca is a tool for restoring a parental bond relationship with an unseen other for those who have had absent or rocky relationships with their own parents (Read & Papaspyrou, 2021). 74% of people still felt an ongoing relationship with the spirit of of Ayahuasca one year after taking it, though it continued with less intensity than the initial experience (Read & Papaspyrou, 2021). This is similar to investigators after getting their initial testimony and their going experience as new converts in the church. Another described Ayahuasca as a consistent presence in their life (Read & Papaspyrou, 2021). Yet another said “an ever-present guide and source of wisdom, both supportive and loving. Others have wrote that it was the first time that they truly felt loved in their life, even though it could often be a tough love (Read & Papaspyrou, 2021). One of the people in my integration group mentioned that grandmother Ayahuasca but kick your @#$, yet is so gentle that she tells you exactly what you need to hear. Again, this is the guidance of the Holy Spirit in reality and I am not implying myself that the Spirit or God is feminine gender just quoting others words. Others have mentioned that the on-going influence of Ayahuasca showed them how to forgive themselves and why they should live healthier (Read & Papaspyrou, 2021).” Still another said, “It feels like a parental bond and they felt loved (Read & Papaspyrou, 2021).” The author of this section of the book mentions that these quotes indicate a parental bond, the kind of bond between an infant and a parent. One in which they are like a child that seeks to be close to a caregiver and feels distress when as an infant, they pulls away from the caregiver. The attachment figure is one which gives the infant confidence to explore the world around them (Read & Papaspyrou, 2021). One person that was getting therapy mentioned that he felt disappointed that he had not lived up to the guiding influence of its presence (Read & Papaspyrou, 2021). For me, it helped me reinforce my relationship with the Holy spirit, which I am certain is happening in those who take Ayahuasca is a forging of a stronger bond with the Holy Spirit and help me get closer to my wife. People who have taken Ayahuasca have mentioned that they can tell when someone else has also taken Ayahuasca without them even mentioning it. This is not unlike how I can tell when I am around other members of the church without them alerting me upfront that they are members, sometimes.
I mention all of this because this really sounds a heck of a lot like someone receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit in their life. I would not say that they are exactly the same thing, because receiving the Holy Spirit is a very strong ordinance and blessing. However, there is definitely a stronger, on-going relationship with the Spirit that has many of the same effects. I have to admit, that I do not completely understand this myself. Especially how the spirit is accessed through taking a substance that alters the brain. They do call DMT, which is the chemical derivative of Ayahuasca the spirit molecule. I think it should also be mentioned that these are not fun trips, if you want to call them that. When one does an Ayahuasca session, they feel like they are dying for about 15 minutes. It is not a natural feeling, feeling disconnected from one’s body and fun is certainly not the word that comes to mind. However, the experience towards the end of a session is so memorable that it more than makes up for the discomfort. Native cultures have always used Hallucinogenics are sacred medicine, not fun party drugs (Pollan, 2019). The hippies used these with other illicit drugs, as a way to separate from society whereas in Native culture, Hallucinogenics were medicine that brought their communities together. The Lakota consider Peyote to be an antidrug, not a drug itself (Pollan, 2019). If you are not familiar with these concepts you may want to check out the documentary, “How to change your mind” on Netflix and a two part documentary titled “Dosed”. One thing that has really impressed me is how good-hearted the people that come to these retreats are and how much of a celestial behavior that they display. It is not a quick or easy fix, but a lot of growth is happening. I would really like to know, Lance, what you think about all of this that I have mentioned.
Just as an add-on to my last comment on what I was talking. I am not suggesting that Hallucinogenics replace the atonement, prayer, repentance, etc for connecting with God, but I am convinced that the combination of Hallucinogenics and traditional tools of the gospel of Jesus Christ, as weird as this will sound to many, is an extremely powerful combination. Hallucinogenics are extremely good at helping one recognize how one’s choices are affecting their life, an existential step in daily repentance. The cathartic utility of them is incredible indeed. I learned during my Ayahuasca session, that I was being way too hard on those around me, especially family members. Mercy, was something I was very much lacking at that point in my life. A close friend of mine did Ayahuasca about the same time as me. He had just been divorced and basically dumped by his recent ex-wife, who had just used him to get through school towards her doctorate and get her American citizenship and go rid of him when he was no longer needed. This friend also has treatment resistant depression and has been known to be suicidal when he gets really low or off his meds. It was revealed to him towards the end of his Ayahuasca session, that people around him love him more than he ever realized. This gave him the strength to make it through the grueling first year after getting a messy divorce. Second, they are very good at helping one feel their true eternal nature, similar very major life events or sacred places like the temple. Third, they help one see the long view. On a personal not, I had a psilocybin session and I saw a vision that time had ended and this life had gone by in the blink of an eye. Needless to say, it gave me more urgency to make needed changes in my life after that. I think it is vital missing piece in the gospel.
Buhner, S. H. (2008). The lost language of plants: The ecological importance of Plant Medicine to life on Earth. Chelsea Green Publishing.
Pollan, M. (2019). How to change your mind: What the new science of psychedelics teaches us about consciousness, dying, addiction, depression, and transcendence. Penguin Books.
Read, T., & Papaspyrou, M. (2021). Psychedelics and psychotherapy: The healing potential of expanded states. Park Street Press.
If this is hell , does that mean we earned (negatively) our place here?
For the most part yes. But many who have joined Christ’s cause have undeservedly descended into hell to save souls.
Anyone have a line at getting a copy of Oahspe?
Hi Lance,
I appreciate your dedication to seeeking truth and I enjoy learning your points of view. I had a question regarding commentary suggesting that as we approach oneness that we become like cells vibrating within a single God. [Forgive the poor paraphrasing there.] Is it your position that we retain our individuality but share united pupose? Or is your belief more that the eternal purpose of divine consciousness is to literally return to a single source/ universal consciousness? If so, please provide your thoughts on the following excerpt from the Sermon in the Grove:
[Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God! I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization. “Father, I pray not for the world, but I pray for them which thou hast given me.” “Holy Father, keep through Thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one as we are.” All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster. I want to read the text to you myself—”I am agreed with the Father and the Father is agreed with me, and we are agreed as one.” The Greek shows that it should be agreed. “Father, I pray for them which Thou hast given me out of the world, and not for those alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word, that they all may be agreed, as Thou, Father, art with me, and I with Thee, that they also may be agreed with us,” and all come to dwell in unity, and in all the glory and everlasting burnings of the Gods; and then we shall see as we are seen, and be as our God and He as His Father.]
“To go no more out.” I am astounded at the thought of this concept! I am LDS and have taken a deep dive into The Sacred Record of the Nemenhah. In the Book of the High Place (Tuhhuhl Nuhmehm) page 49 verse 98 – 99 speaks clearly of this doctrine.
” The Father: This is the World of Our Firstborn, who has progressed almost to the end of the mortal cycle….It is the only way that the Natural Man may be subdued and the Spiritual Man, or Man of Holiness, arises out of corrupt matter and becomes master of it. In the final phase, the Firstborn will take on mortality one last time to overcome it. In the last of the Lives and the Deaths, He will become exalted with all of His Creation. Then shall all matter become His.
I started reading The Sacred Record of the Nemenhah as a sceptic. I truly believe that it is another record preserved for these last days. It prophecies of the errors of The Church in the last days because of the pride of the people. I believe that President Nelson has either read this record or he had been instructed by the Lord to start making changes. Many of the errors have been changed or is slowly being changed. Nemenhah means the People of the Spirit. Thousands left by ship with Hagoth and fewer still traveled up the Colorado River and settled northward. They separated themselves because they wanted to walk and talk with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Many of the topics discussed on this site are covered in this record and corresponds with Lance’s conclusions. The Law of Cause and Effect and the Law of Restoration is amazing and right on point with Lance’s teaching. This record is phenomenal! It is a must read!
1. I would love an original copy of the Ben Kathryn workout notes. How can I get one? Also in Hebrew.
2. I just read in Ann Emmerich The Life of Christ (a mystic who became a nun, approx 1800) that the Egyptians were jealous of the Hebrews geneology and ancient cred, so they made up fake kings to extend their timeline to make them seem more ancient.
workout notes? what does that mean? The text was only online for a few years before its author (an acquaintance of John) took down the entire site. I did not download the Hebrew version. Likely the Hebrew version still exists somewhere on a Hebrew site.
Lance. I’ve been following you lately on Zion Media and other places. I agree with almost everything you have testified and shown evidence on.
I have believed in reincarnation for a few years. I have also been shown things in dreams and visions that don’t align with my traditional LDS beliefs. However, I love the church with all it imperfections, and feel that all members need to rise about tradition and the world in order to get more light, knowledge, and understanding.
I have worked in recruiting for years, and make a good living, but am most passionate about standing up for freedom, liberty, but most especially learning and gaining by better spiritual perspectives.
I have now read the Gospel of the holy 12, gone west, and have a copy of the Kolbrin and Zohar.
Also have read much of your teachings on to go no more out or gathered in one and love Ben Kathryn’s revelations. They spiritually speak to me.
I love the B of M and JS teachings along with Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Alma and many others.
Please send me more on other things to learn and study.
Thanks
Lance, I’ll tackle each part of your question to me on YouTube one at a time. The first one I’ll address here is where I place the land of Bountiful:
Going strictly from the text, I place Bountiful east of the river Sidon, east of Zarahemla, south of the land Desolation and the small neck of land, south of Sea South, southwest of the narrow pass, north of the city of Nephi, west of the East Wilderness, and south latitude of both Sea East and Sea West.
The river Sidon is inferred to be in a north to south orientation based off the battle descriptions in Alma 2 and Alma 43, where everything is happening to the east or west of Sidon. The battle in Alma 2 is north of the head of the river Sidon, and the battle in Alma 43 occurred south of the head of the river Sidon. The river appeared much easier to cross during the battle in the north than the one in the south, therefore, I believe the river Sidon flowed from north to south and the head of the river Sidon is a major confluence of rivers. That would also mean the dead bodies from the battle floated out to a sea or ocean to the south, and the headwaters would be in the North Wilderness or the Wilderness Hermounts north of Zarahemla. The narrow strip of wilderness runs from east to west by the head of the river Sidon in Alma 22:27. I don’t believe that is talking about the directionality of the river, which I believe is confirmed by the battle descriptions.
Zarahemla was west of Sidon, the head of the river Sidon is on the midpoint somewhere on the narrow strip of wilderness before the narrow strip of wilderness reaches Bountiful on the wilderness side. I believe the “wilderness side” in Alma 22 could refer to the East Wilderness in this case. It’s the land Bountiful that is threatened when the Lamanites have success on the east side when taking Nephihah and all the cities that were built in the East Wilderness after Moroni had driven the Lamanites out. Therefore, Bountiful is on the east side of Nephite lands, and Zarahemla is on the west side of Nephite lands. The center of the lands would lie between them.
In Alma 22, the narrow strip of wilderness would be in the shape of a “U” since it runs “round about” with one end starting at the North Wilderness and seashore of Sea West [I’d say it’s the west shoreline], and its other end ending on the seashore of Sea East [I’d say it’s the south shoreline of Sea East] after running through the borders of Manti and by the head of the river Sidon, both of which are south of Zarahemla and Bountiful. Add to that the migration and settlement of the land of Desolation in Helaman 3. I believe the Four Cardinal Seas mentioned in verse 8 are around the land of Desolation rather than all lands of the Book of Mormon. This could imply two more seas in the north between Sea East and Sea West. Sea South would then be between Sea East and Sea West and north of the land of Bountiful. There would be some separation between the seas providing for the small neck between Sea West and Sea South, and the narrow pass between Sea South and Sea East.
I place the narrow pass northeast from Bountiful based off the border dispute between the cities of Lehi and Morianton (Alma 50:25–35). The people of Morianton were traveling toward the narrow pass from the seashore of the East Wilderness, and Teancum and his men were coming from Moroni’s camp in the land of Bountiful. Teancum and his men were Moroni’s elite troops and would have marched far faster than the people of Morianton. Therefore, I think the narrow pass would be to the northeast from Bountiful.
The Land of Nephi has wilderness to the west “in” it. There is wilderness to the west “of” Zarahemla, but it is uncertain if that wilderness extended south latitude of Zarahemla, though the river Sidon could provide a logical border between the land of Nephi and possible west wilderness west “of” Nephi. It feels to me like the city of Nephi is either centralized or more to the east side of the land of Nephi. That means it would probably line up straight south of Bountiful and southeast from Zarahemla. The King of the Lamanites sent messengers round about in every direction. I think that clause is tied with the clause that says the land of Nephi was “bordering even to the sea, on the east and on the west”. If the combined description is, “round about in every direction even unto the sea” could potentially mean a seashore stretching from directly east of the city of Nephi, continuing round about until the seashore would be stretching to the west from the viewpoint perspective from the city of Nephi. That would match with a south flowing Sidon River where the dead bodies thrown into it could have gone out to sea. That would be a sea/possibly an ocean to the south of the land of Nephi.
I believe the Heartland Model fits the text most accurately, and the placement of things based off the above description is thus:
Sea North: Lake Huron
Sea South: Lake Erie
Sea East: Lake Ontario
Sea West: Lake Michigan
The land of Desolation: Lower Michigan Peninsula and the Ontario Peninsula with some settlements southward down and around Lake Erie.
The small neck: The base of the Lower Michigan Peninsula that used to be much narrower when the water level of the great lakes was around 13 feet deeper during the Nephite timeline.
The narrow pass: The Niagara Escarpment connecting the Ontario Peninsula to New York State.
The river Sidon: The Mississippi River
The head of the river Sidon: The confluence of the Mississippi and Ohio rivers.
The land of Zarahemla: Predominantly Iowa
The land of Bountiful: Predominantly Ohio
The East Wilderness: The eastern United States east of the Appalachians down to around the border of South Carolina
The West Wilderness west “of” Zarahemla: The Great Plains west of Iowa
The North Wilderness: Wisconsin and south Minnesota
The Wilderness Hermounts: north Minnesota
In connection with my comment on the use of the term “sea” as it could apply to rivers anciently, I would say a good candidate for the “west sea, south” (Alma 53:8) and the west sea by the borders of the land on the south (Alma 53:22), on the Heartland Model, would be the Missouri River with its large floodplain from Sioux City to St. Louis.
I believe the waters of Ripliancum is the Atlantic Ocean. The interpretation of Ripliancum is “large, or to exceed all” (Ether 15:8). Irreantum, is interpreted as “many waters” (1 Nephi 17:5), and is an ocean, which is “large, or to exceed all”. I think the similarity of terms and interpretation between Ripliancum and Irreantum, points to both of them being oceans.
The waters of Ripliancum positioning:
My assumptions are based off of Joseph Smith identifying the Hill Cumorah in New York as THE Hill Cumorah and Lake Ontario as Sea East in the Zelph Mound account. On that foundation, if the people spreading throughout the land “from sea south to sea north, from sea west to sea east” (Helaman 3:8) is referring specifically to the land of Desolation, then the Lower Peninsula of Michigan and the Ontario Peninsula would be the land of Desolation surrounded by the Four Cardinal Seas, which would fit with Lake Ontario as Sea East.
The land of Moron, where the King of the Jaredites dwelt, was near Desolation (Ether 7:6). The Jaredites had landed in the north. The land of Moron was west of the land of Cumorah (Ether 9:3), but likely not by the small neck of land because there may have been too many poisonous serpents in that area, even then. The Ontario Peninsula looks like it was sparsely populated. There are many Adena mound sites concentrated in the Lower Peninsula of Michigan, and the old Native American trails have their focal point in the area at Detroit. That indicates a place of great importance, and the Great Mound that was once in the area is an indication of a lot of conflict there as well. Therefore, Detroit is my choice for the location for the capital city of the Jaredites.
In Ether 9:3, Omer is warned by God to depart out of the land. Omer couldn’t have fled south because the way was likely blocked by poisonous serpents that weren’t destroyed to open that way south until generations later in Ether 10:19. Therefore, I believe he would have fled eastward from Moron away from highly populated areas to avoid witnesses to his travels. From the Detroit area he could have traveled many days (about 120 miles) before reaching the hilly region of the Ontario Peninsula, where the hill Shim could be located. Then eastward from there to where to the Nephites were destroyed. Omar settled in Ablom eastward from Cumorah by the seashore, may have been by Lake Ontario, since they don’t identify Ripliancum yet. That also establishes settlements that the final armies can sweep before them in the final conflict in that direction.
The valley of Corihor and the valley of Shurr (Ether 14:28), I believe would be northeast from Cumorah, possibly in the State of Maine, because then they flee from the area of those valleys, is when they finally name the waters of Ripliancum (Ether 15:7–8). After having reached the shores of Ripliancum is when they turn south and end up back at Cumorah. Ogath would be near Cumorah (Ether 15:10–11). The armies, from there, could have travelled south along the shoreline of Ripliancum/the Atlantic Ocean until they reached the area of the State of Massachusetts, at which point there is an old Indian trail they could have followed to get through the mountainous area more easily, and back to Cumorah
The middle region where the Grand River Indian Trail crosses the Lower Peninsula of Michigan appears bare of Adena mound sites, and would be my candidate for the wilderness of Akish (Ether 14:14), and the Plains of Agosh, I would place in the area of Saginaw and Bay City, Michigan, because then there are sites indicating inhabitants Coriantumr would have been gathering with him as he fled to a lower elevation and flat open area (Ether 14:16). I think the carnage would have focused on passing through the most populous region, which for the Adena, would be Ohio, and on a diagonal up into the southwest area of New York State (Ether 14:17–25). The seashore in Ether 14:26, could possibly be either Lake Ontario or along the St. Lawrence Seaway.
Anyway, I’d be interested to hear others’ thoughts on these ideas of mine.
Would you still like to do an in-person meeting or a Zoom call? How would you like to go about it? I live in San Antonio, TX. Don’t know if that’s too far away or not.
Yep, lets do it. Things are a bit busy right now, but I’ll hit you up when some time opens up.
I had a wonderment on your thoughts of Peleg. Geologically speaking, was the earth divided during Peleg’s time?
Thank you!
The Land of Promise and the New Jerusalem:
Ether 13:2–6 states the New Jerusalem will be built upon the Jaredite lands. Doctrine and Covenants 84:1–4 states the New Jerusalem will be built in Missouri. Ether 13:20–21 says Coriantumr would live to see other people inherit the lands of the Jaredites, and he would receive a burial by them. That would mean the Mulekites, at least, would be settling in Jaredite lands. I believe the Mulekites and Lehites settled in the Jaredite hunting preserve (Ether 10:19), and the land of Desolation was the Jaredite Civilization core where most of them lived. The Mulekites had first landed in the land of Desolation (Alma 22:30), but I think they didn’t settle there or close by because they didn’t want to settle in the land of rotting Jaredite corpses.
Independence, Missouri, was called the center place of the land of promise (Doctrine and Covenants 57:1–3). Rod Meldrum has suggested Independence, Missouri, is roughly the center place of the contiguous United States. A more correct center of the contiguous United States would be Lebanon, Kansas 267 miles to the west. However, Independence, Missouri, does fit being the center point between “the hill Cumorah or east sea to the Rocky Mountains” as described in the Zelph Mound account. Therefore, I’d say the borders of the Promised Land would be more like the borders of the United States in 1830 when the Church was restored. It wouldn’t need to be exact, but I think they roughly overlap. I’d say the main events of the Book of Mormon happened in that area, which is right where the Heartland Model is. I don’t see any other model lining up with those revelations.
Hello! I have stumbled upon your blog and I have found quite a bit that I agree with. I have actually come to some similar conclusions independently. I read your beliefs page on the nature of God and His place in the (near) infinite hierarchy, and I definitely agree on some of those points. I am curious to know if you have looked much at Platonism or Neoplatonism, with the ideas of the Good or the One, and the theurgy of Iamblichus. I think I have managed to integrate these ideas into my LDS framework, and I wanted to know your thoughts on such philosophy. Additionally, I am curious if you have gone in depth on the Christian Mystics like Meister Eckhart or Nicholas of Cusa and dealing with their panentheism and apophatic theology.
Thanks, Vic
I think many of the channeled texts which have helped shape my worldview (in the ‘texts’ section of my website) have ideas in common with Platonism or Neoplatonism. But I haven’t heard of any other names you mention… I’ll have to check them out. 🙂
Thank you!
I love your teachings and comment on Zion Media
I have lots of question but I will only as three right now that just came to the surface.
1. What is the best book to read/ listen to and learn about the LAW OF ONE?
2. Have you ever read Glenda Green’s book LOVE WITHOUT END?
It has a her Filter colors within in .. but I love the three main components of the universe.
Which is 1. Love = God and All of Us
2. Spirit .. which reminds me a lot light the Light in D&C 88 or Kryon’s Cosmic Lattice or the Field or Christ Consciousness from LDS dictionary
3. Matter- God Particles
Glenda Green’s book calls them ADAMANTINE PARTICLES
My third Question
Strange one..
last night I meet a person who created a calendar from reading the book of Enoch.. if I can get a copy of it.. would you like to see? In my mind you have already created your own.. and maybe like to compare the Two.
If it helps any. From a base twelve numerology reading I am a 22 & 33 = 55.
So I understand you 11 way of thinking.. I THINK?
I’d love to share with you how to open and read the book sealed with seven seals to compliment all your efforts to unfold the deeper meaning sealed up in the scriptures. Please reach out to me at your convenience so that we can schedule a Zoom meeting where we can get a little acquainted and share our gems with one another.
The second coming is Spring of 2031 & the 7 years of tribulation are 2024 – 2031. The lords patterns are repeating themselves. We are going through the same thing that the Israelites did. Our 7 years of plenty was 2017-2024 & our 7 years of famine are 2024 – 2031. The Davidic Servants gather everyone out to safety after we go through our 10 plagues and diseases. This will probably happen around 2027. There are 2 Davidic Servants. One is LDS (Thomas Brodsky) & the other one is Jewish (Jonathan Cahn). And, then, there is the Daughter of Zion (Tina McNiven). These are your end time servants. The end time servants go up against the Anti-Christ which is Emmanuel Macron. He is the president of France since 2017.
The second coming happens after the 7 year tribulation. Mark 13:24–27, JS – Matt 1:36 Matt 24:15,21, 29–30. Daniel 9:24–27 teaches you the timeline to the second coming. Let’s walk through this: Decree/proclamation of King Artaxerxes in 457 B.C to rebuild & restore Jerusalem. Daniel had this date because he was the chief Maggi (wiseman) Dan 2:48. He is told there are 70 weeks before the coming of the Lord but the Lord is cut off & the clock stops at week 69 (69 x 7 = 483 Yrs). The 1 missing wk (7 yrs) happens just prior to the Lord’s second coming which is the 7 years of tribulation. Then, we add 4 Sabbath years to it because the 490 yr. time period (70 wks. X 7 = 490) are Shemitah years & you have 4 Sabbath yrs (1 additional sabbath year for each 100 yrs of the 490 yrs) that needs to be added to it. Then, you add 2000 years to complete the earth’s mission of 6000 yrs. (6 Days) before the earth rests for its sabbath, the millennium. The earth was organized in approx. 4004 BC & has 1 wk. Each day is a 1000 yrs. Christ died in approx. 31 AD. Therefore, there is 2000 yrs remaining on the earth before the earth receives its Sabbath. Don’t mess with the Lord’s Sabbath. Those who observe the sabbath day & keep it holy will get extra, extra protection in these last days. Sarah Menet “There Is No Death” pg.128.
457 BC + 483 Years (27 AD) + 4 Sabbath Years (31 AD) + 2000 Years = 2031 AD The second coming happens in spring 2031 AD between April 6, 2031 (Sunday) & May 16, 2031 (3rd Eclipse). Spring of 2031.
Daniel 9:24–27 teaches you the tribulation period is 7 years. Notice how Christ in Matt 24:15 tells his disciples to look at Daniel’s prophecy for the timeline to the second coming. Daniel’s prophecy also reveals the 7-year tribulation known in the scriptures as Jacob’s Troubles. See Matt 24:15–22 & Mark 13:14–27. There are 2 parts of the tribulation: Part 1: Tribulation (1st 3.5 yrs) & Part 2: Wrath & Judgement (2nd 3.5 yrs.) Let’s walk through this: Daniel is told there are 70 weeks before the coming of Christ but at week 69 (Jewish Math vs. 26) Christ is cut off & the tribulation begins just before Christ comes. 70 – 69 = 1 week = 7 days which represents 7 yrs of Tribulation. This is also telling us that the tribulation happens at the very end just prior to the second coming. These scriptures are referred to as the missing week of Daniel in the Christian world. Most of Revelations is about the 7-yr tribulation. The prophets & scriptures refer to it as “the tribulation.”
Pres. Hinkley tells you in all 3 talks to look at Pharaoh’s Dream & talks of ‘the tribulation.’ The message of Pharaoh’s dream: 7 years of Plenty & 7 years of Famine. (3 talks = 3 Eclipses). The eclipses are 2017, 2024, & 2031. The eclipse of 2017 & 2024 put and X over Missouri. X marks the spot. And, the eclipse in 2031 will put the arch of the eclipse directly over Israel.
1998 Talk – (Saturday Oct 3) “To the Boys and to the Men” Nov. Ensign 1998
2001 Talk – (Sunday Oct 7) “The Times In Which We Live” Nov. Ensign 2001
2005 Talk – (Saturday Oct 1) “If Ye Are Prepared Ye Shall Not Fear” Nov. Ensign 2005
2 Cows were born in the U.S. with the #7 on their foreheads. The black cow was born on Sept. 20, 2014 which was a Saturday &
was also the last Hebrew Sabbath of the 2014 year. A picture of this cow was released to the media on Sept. 25, 2014 which was the 1st day of the new Shemitah Year. The red heifer was born on Sept 25, 2014 which was the 1st day of the new Jewish Sabbath Shemitah Year which was also a Jubilee Year. (7 x 7 = 49 Yrs.) 2014 to 2015 is the 49th Shemitah year. The 2 cows with 7”s represents the seven sevens of the Shemitah of Shemitahs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv3bpaca8sQ
The scriptures teach that the Davidic Servants are like unto Moses & will gather you out to safety (flee). D&C 103:16–20, Moses 7:61, 66, 2 Nephi 3:9–10, Matt 24:16 & Mark 13:14–19, Rev. 12:6,14 Jeremiah 30:7 Watch how all the patterns & cycles of the Lord are repeating themselves. Eccl. 1:9, Isaiah 46:10. Food storage will be the lambs’ blood above your door for the 10 plagues and diseases (approx. 2 yrs?) before the servants gather out the saints. Moses & Joshua gathered the people out at Passover on the Day of First Fruits Lev. 23:9–15, Ex. 24:3–8, Joshua 5:10–12. Pres. Eyring “Finding Safety In Council” May 1997 Ensign. “Safe In His Hand” March 2010 Ensign. L Tom Perry “Power of Deliverance” 2012 May Ensign pg. 94. “Take Your Tents & Flee” July Ensign 2012 pg. 19-20. “Be Ye Also Ready” 1989 Ensign. “An Anchor To the Souls of Men” Howard W Hunter 2010 March Ensign. Luke 21:20 & 36, 1 Nephi 17:35–38, Alma 26:5–7, 40:9, 57:1, Ezekial 20:24-25, D&C 45:68, 63:54, 86:1-7, 97:23-26, 101:21, 115:5-6, 124:36, 132:49-50, D&C Student Manuel 115:5 “Wherein Is Safety.”
Anti-Christ (Emmanuel Macron – Pres. of France 2021) Dan 8:8–9, 19–25, 9:7-8, 26-27, Rev. 13:1,5–8, Rev 16:13, Rev 19:20, 2 Nephi 25:17, 2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 etc. makes a Peace Treaty for 1 wk. (7 yrs) with Israel & allows the Temple to be built.
(NWO/World Reset/Great Awakening/Q) He breaks his promise in the middle (Daniel 9:27) at 3.5 years. He destroys the temple/sacrifice & declares himself God forcing all to worship him & the beast. Daniel 9:26–27. The anti-christ will use the same tactics as Pharoah of Egypt did to force the entire earth into slavery & worshiping him as God. Cash was traded for food. Livestock or business & means of production was traded for food. Land & homes were traded for food. Then, finally the people sold themselves into slavery for food. Matt 24:45–46 If you are unprepared, this means at one of these points, you will have to take the mark of the beast in the hand or head which is a micro/nano chip that uses a barcode system of 666. Rev.13:16-18 You MUST have food to survive & be 100% debt free to escape.
The Anti-Christ may counteract the plagues of the 2 witnesses like Pharoah did on the world but biological? There is a 3.5 Yr War. U.S. Pres. Trump shot at some point in the left side of the heart. It is symbolic. Left = Wickedness Right = Righteousness The capital of the New World Order (NWO)/World Reset/4th Beast Kingdom/Q) will be moved from Rome to Denver, CO. See Books & Internet: “None Dare Call It Conspiracy” by Gary Allen which teaches there is a worldwide conspiracy taking place & is endorsed by Ezra Taft Benson. The money system is owned by NWO See: The Creature from Jekyll Island by Edward Griffin. NWO controls mainstream media & tell you what they want you to believe, the UN is the One World Gov’t = Q, Martial Law, REX 84 or FEMA Concentration Camps, Bilderberg Meetings, HAARP, Agenda 21 (Corona = 666 in Gematria) & then they began Agenda 2030, CERN, etc.
Angels are showing up telling people that if they don’t have their food storage that they will not make it through what is coming. The LDS canneries sent all the service workers home for good and told them that there isn’t anymore food coming into the canneries. The church canneries are completely empty. You will also need to be completely out of debt as well.
The holy Church of God infiltrated by evil men. Ether 8:23–24 Heed Moroni’s Warning! All churches become corrupt…yea, even every one…Why have ye polluted the holy church of god. Mormon 8:35–41. Pres Nelson publicly meets with the Pope on 3/9/2019 & “seals the deal” with a masonic hand shake. See: SLC Tribune 3/19/19. See: BOM Prefix page. The LDS people are the gentiles in the BOM. Nephi Warns that the LDS Gentile church joins forces with the great & abominable church. 2 Nephi 6:12. Russell M. Nelson belongs to the Skull & Bones Secret Society, From Heart to Heart by Russell M. Nelson Autobiography, pg.48. Many of the apostles & general authorities belong to secret combination societies. Todd D. Christopherson announces the church is now globally aligned with the UN 2030 Agenda. “Global Sustainability” Nov. Ensign 2020 pg. 32-34. 8/16/20 Music & the Spoken Word #4744 (17:00 Minutes) praises the UN in the latter half of the broadcast. Top LDS Church leaders attending World Summits. Satanic Rituals performed in temples in the Old Testament. Jeremiah 23:10–11. End time servants expose deep corruption in the LDS church (2025). Isaiah 48:1–2, 1 Nephi 20:1–2, D&C 64:39. Upon my house it will begin… D&C 112: 23–26. Old Testament BAAL/Molech sacrificing of children. Leviticus 20:1–6, 18:21, 1 Kings 11:7, 2 Kings 23:10, Jeremiah 32:33–34, etc. Parable of the Redemption of Zion. Brigham Young knocked the hedge out. D&C 101:43–62, 3 Nephi 21:6, 22, Davidic Servants come & set the “Lord’s house in order.” Isaiah 44:7, D&C 85:7–8, D&C 101:55–58, 103:15-18, 2 Nephi 21:10–12, 1 Nephi 10:14.
when trying to follow the link given in “lived before they were born as spirit offspring of a heavenly father [and heavenly mother]” (see gospel topics). i am unable to find the gospel topics information that you say is there. can you help me find this in the gospel topics. thank you. this subject interest me.
I had a light bulb moment when I learned that, in ancient times, many navigable rivers in the Middle East, and the Nile River, in particular, were referred to both as rivers and as seas. It’s said that the Nile River was called a sea mostly in relation to its floodplains that are 12 miles wide on average. Therefore, it is possible that some of the seas or seashores mentioned in The Book of Mormon, may actually be referring to rivers, or especially, floodplains.
Jershon was given to the people of Ammon in the 15th year of the reign of the judges (Alma 28:1–9). Jershon was described as being on the east by the sea, and south of Bountiful, and the Nephites were giving up the land, so it was not a land controlled by the Lamanites (Alma 27:22). The east wilderness wasn’t taken from the Lamanites until 5 years later in the 20th year of the reign of the judges, and I believe that seashore mentioned is a different body of water than that mentioned in Alma 27:22 (Alma 50:1–9), which would be further east than the sea mentioned by Jershon.
Antionum is south of Jershon, and is mentioned being near a seashore that is between it and the wilderness south, which is Lamanite territory (Alma 31:3). This establishes a body of water that could go south on the east side of Jershon before it turned west, south of Antionum, towards the head of the river Sidon.
Nephite armies are established in the west to protect the south and west borders of the land before Moroni departed to help Teancum retake cities in the east in the 26th year of the reign of the judges, before the Lamanites’ advance that captured cities (Alma 52:15).
Ammaron became King of the Lamanites at the start of the 26th year of the reign of the judges (Alma 52:1–3). It would make sense to me that an army would only need to be placed to protect the west border if the west wilderness of the Lamanites had not been taken by Moroni at the time he took the east wilderness from the Lamanites in Alma 50:7–8. Presumably the statement of the Nephite border running “in a straight course from the east sea to the west,” would be from the ocean in the east to the west border of Manti in the west, before it would turn north along the west border of the land of Zarahemla, as described in Alma 22:27–28. The Lamanites took cities in the west while in the absence of Moroni in the 26th year of the reign of the judges (Alma 53:8). The Lamanites were also described as being by the west sea, south. They are also on the west side of the river Sidon, and they are likely south at the corner of Nephite lands by the city of Manti. Manti is the first city lost and the last city retaken, since the cities are mentioned being retaken in the opposite order of this list: Manti, Zeezrom, Cumeni, and Antiparah (Alma 56:13–14), except Zeezrom is presumably abandoned when the whole Lamanite army in the west moves to the eastern front east of the river Sidon after Manti is lost (Alma 59:6).
The 2,000 Stripling Warriors went to support the people in the south by the west sea (Alma 53:22). They, then, are used to decoy the Lamanite army out if Antiparah (Alma 56:31–35). After the Lamanites start their pursuit, the 2,000 Stripling Warriors retreat northward (Alma 56:36). The Lamanites wouldn’t pass by the city of Judea to attack weaker cities northward (cities on the interior of Nephite territory) and chance getting surrounded, they wouldn’t attack Zarahemla, nor cross the head of the river Sidon to the east to attack Nephihah (Alma 56:22–26). Therefore, I believe it would be easiest to decoy them in a westward direction, which could be by territory they control, and the city by the sea would likely be a border city of the Nephites in the west, which would place a seashore on the west border of the Nephites in the south of their lands. The city by the sea would also be in Nephite territory before the Lamanites invaded the area, therefore the west wilderness of the Lamanites would be beyond that sea, in my opinion, otherwise the Nephites would have cut the Lamanites off from the west wilderness west of Zarahemla, which does not appear to be the case at the time. Therefore, I think the seas mentioned were a dividing feature between Nephite and Lamanite lands.
That would establish the existence of a type of sea running southward on the west border of Nephite territory that turns east after passing Manti, in the direction of the head of the river Sidon. I believe the seas on the west and the east of Nephite territory in the south with a possible connection to the head of the river Sidon are floods plains of two major rivers that join Sidon at its head.
The head of the river Sidon was north of Nephi. It doesn’t seem like the Nephites went North of it until Mosiah left with his people and discovered the people of Zarahemla. The Nephites lived in Nephi fir at least 300 years before then (Omni 1:5). The BYU timeline has the estimated discovery year as 180 BC, which would put the time closer to 400 years. If the river Sidon flowed south, would it be possible for a confluence of rivers to be called the head if they aren’t traveling north of it for centuries? If that was the case, I would think they would continue to call it “the head,” even after moving North of it. Rivers joining the river Sidon, I believe, would predominantly flow in the same general direction as Sidon before their joining point. It looks likes that’s generally the case with virtually every watershed in the world. That would have the Sidon flowing south. I believe the battle in Alma 43 occurred south of the head of the river Sidon. If they had gone away north of the head, they would have been in Nephite territory, and I’m certain Moroni’s spies would have been able to follow them and there would be no need to ask God, through Alma, where they had gone. It would be possible for spies to lose track of who they were following if they were following in enemy territory, evading their own discovery. If the Lamanites went away by the head of the river Sidon south of the head, then their should have been no Sidon River to cross if they were south of the head, unless the river was not only north, but also south of the head. The army of Lehi stopped at the shoreline of Sidon, rather than pursuing the Lamanites across it, which tells me the river had significant depth to it where the Lamanites crossed, which would make pursuit across the river dangerous for his own army. If they could cross it easily on foot, then they likely would have crossed over on foot like was done during the battle of Zarahemla in Alma 2. If the Sidon River was only north of the head and not south, then the Lamanites would have had to cross into Nephite territory before crossing the river. My question, then, would be to ask why they wouldn’t have simply continued around the head within their own territory where a river crossing would not have been necessary, and much faster. I think the only reason they were crossing the Sidon River at that place, was because it was their best and only option to get over to the city of Manti. This is further reasoning why I think the Heartland Model makes the most sense.
Hmmm… unfortunately Michael you start with some untrue assumptions in your very first paragraph. “in ancient times, many navigable rivers in the Middle East, and the Nile River, in particular, were referred to both as rivers and as seas.” This is emphatically false. Show me ONE example where this was true in a geographical context, in a way translator might confuse. It doesn’t exist. Because just like today, the ancients didn’t call rivers seas and seas rivers. (The Hebrew ‘yam’ in Isaiah 18:2 and Nahum 3:8 prove my point on this! Not the opposite like some people try and suggest!) This is an invention by people who want to make the BOM internal geography ‘fit’ into their pet models. Its simply false. No better than pretending that every shoreline that doesn’t fit our imaginary model changed at the destruction of christ so once again we can be right instead of humbly finding a model that fits with the unadulterated text.
And you kind of fall into the same trap in the second paragraph “I believe that seashore mentioned [in Alma 50] is a different body of water than that mentioned in Alma 27:22. Yet Alma 50 says “8 And the land of Nephi did run in a straight course from the east sea to the west.” ALMOST A DIRECT QUOTE OF Alma 22 “which [Land of Nephi] was bordering even to the sea, on the east and on the west”, which goes on to state “33.. And it came to pass that the Nephites had inhabited the land Bountiful, even from the east unto the west sea…” So why on earth would you think the Bountiful of Alma 27 is by some different ‘east sea’? Sure its possible, but it creates more problems than it solves.
I love the thought you’ve put into this though. Lots of great ideas. Maybe we should record a conversation on a youtube video one of these days so we can walk through them and follow their implications to the end.